We have an excellent group of teachers at our DCPS school. Some are stronger than others, but not one is a “bad” teacher. Those who are weaker are mentored and will grow in their capacity. If you have at least a few excellent teachers who can let others observe them, and an administration who spends enough time in the classroom to notice who needs support, you can end up with a great team.

In education in general, it rarely happens. Screwing up money, cheating on tests, and a "crime" are the only sure ways..

Anonymous wrote:yes, if their IMPACT scores were low enough.

In 2012-13, Deal MS got caught cheating on IMPACT.

An ELA teacher was caught giving students answers.

The test referees caught her during one of their walk-throughs.

Deal was sanctioned for the next 5 testing seasons.

This also opened up the floodgates as they were also caught lying about their accounting since records were not properly kept.

This included everything from how IEPs were documented, attendance was taken, and how employees were lying on their report to work times.

That accounting manger was fired as was the primary attendance officer and replaced by two new women, who although good with numbers, has also been good about allocating funds to things that will increase Deal’s bottom line with their PTA and not the kids and teachers in the classroom.

Fast forward to 2016, when James Albright, former principal got caught in the middle of all of it and was put on “reassignment” to work at Central during his final year in DCPS after it was found out that he helped hide money, cover up employees stealing from the PTA fund, and thus promoting the current Principal, Diedre Neal, who is being investigated for low test scores, underperforming teachers, high turnover rates, and increased numbers of complaints to HR.

So, I’m summation, “yes, you can get fired for poor performance in DCPS.”

OP, you need a more nuanced understanding of this. It's not as simple as Bad test scores = Bad principal. A principal can be good at their job and yet the school can still have bad test scores for many years. PARCC starts in 3rd grade so improvements in ECE and K-2nd won't show up as improved PARCC scores for years. Some of the kids are so far behind and have such profound special needs that even the most talented leader and talented staff are going to need extra years to get them to a good level. There's a ton of housing instability and kids moving from school to school for reasons unrelated to school quality, so the growth year over year doesn't accumulate inside one school.

When a school is doing well and its reputation improves, it starts attracting kids from other, lower-performing schools. That pulls down the stats-- it's really a struggle to keep up performance in the face of an influx. If you wanted to run data on how students do by how long they've been at the school, that would be more interesting.

The quality of administrators is super important, and that's why DCPS has various leadership development programs and absolutely is willing to fire principals sometimes. But PARCC test scores are not the primary metric you should be looking at. PARCC MGP would be more relevant, as would teacher recruitment and retention, and K-2nd metrics such as iReady and DIBELS or whatever the school uses.

Principals are sometimes offered the opportunity to "resign" before being fired or non-renewed.

I have seen people get fired for really egregious behavior like the principal of Miner a few years ago. But DCPS doesn't expect that a principal will have a rapid impact on PARCC test scores, especially when the kids are starting from so far behind. Some of the kids are so far below grade level it would take several consecutive years of immediate massive improvement to get them caught up, and I don't think there's any principal who could deliver that. If test scores (not just PARCC but other metrics too) are showing any improvement and teachers and parents are reasonably content and the principal is doing as the central office directs, it's unlikely the principal will be fired unless something really weird is going on. DCPS knows there aren't a lot of people willing and able to be good principals-- they can't afford to throw out the low-ish performers unless they have an alternative lined up.

The same goes for teachers-- can't fire unless you're confident you can hire someone better. I have seen teachers nudged out or encouraged to "resign", for sure. But it's a gamble on who you think you can recruit. The best principals IMO are the ones who can recruit and retain high quality teachers, because that's what enables them to get rid of the low performing teachers. A willingness to fire people is only one part of the solution.

I've known several teachers who got fired for poor performance. DCPs doesn't have tenure so if your impact scores are low, you can be fired. I think most principals leave before they can be fired for poor performance.

I know a teacher who got pushed out at our school for not being able to recertify & another fired mid-year for really egregious behavior about a decade ago.

yes, if their IMPACT scores were low enough.

If there were hordes of people knocking down the doors to work or teach in DCPS, then sure. But there aren't.

So the plan is typically to offer additional support and resources to employees, not fire them.

Anonymous wrote:Test scores across the city have plummeted since schools reopened. Most DCPS schools have been terrible for years. I know it's virtually impossible to fire unionized teachers, but do any principals or administrators ever get fired for simply being bad at their job? The only times you hear about principals or administrators being fired, it's normally because of personnel complaints or clashes with Central office. I think Michelle Rhee was the last person to fire a principal because their school was performing poorly. The only senior DCPS administrator who was fired recently was Melissa Kim, and that was because people claimed she was a bully. Antwan Wilson was pushed out because of corruption. If anything Wilson was probably a much more competent chancellor than Ferebee. And yet Ferebee has kept his job, despite no one in the city thinking he is a good chancellor. Paul Kihn showed during the pandemic he is also terrible.

I can understand your frustration. Why do ask? Is there someone you are thinking of? If you were the boss would you have fired that person? Just interested.

Well Paul Kihn and Ferebee are only accountable to the mayor. So I guess since she hasn’t fired them, she must think they are doing a great job. And since she was just re-elected she doesn’t give a sh*t what anyone thinks.

What tools does a principal have at a middle school or high school where the vast majority of IB kids opt out, so you're basically getting the least-motivated, least-prepared 15% of kids in your neighborhood, there's significant pressure not to suspend or expel, and you have to pass them through? What is your job in those circumstances? What are you supposed to be doing? This isn't rhetorical. I'm not sure what success looks like there.

Principals get non-renewal letters if downtown isn't happy with them. It happened at our school. I'm not sure why though.

I've seen it happen. The principal canned the receptionist at our school bc she screwed up basically every aspect of her job. But it was hard to find a replacement because it doesn't pay well.

It's more common for a principal to quietly urge someone to move on, or to even help them find a better fitting job elsewhere, than to outright fire them. Mid-year hires tend to be people who were fired from other jobs, so it's not necessarily going to be an upgrade.

Test scores across the city have plummeted since schools reopened. Most DCPS schools have been terrible for years. I know it's virtually impossible to fire unionized teachers, but do any principals or administrators ever get fired for simply being bad at their job? The only times you hear about principals or administrators being fired, it's normally because of personnel complaints or clashes with Central office. I think Michelle Rhee was the last person to fire a principal because their school was performing poorly. The only senior DCPS administrator who was fired recently was Melissa Kim, and that was because people claimed she was a bully. Antwan Wilson was pushed out because of corruption. If anything Wilson was probably a much more competent chancellor than Ferebee. And yet Ferebee has kept his job, despite no one in the city thinking he is a good chancellor. Paul Kihn showed during the pandemic he is also terrible.