Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are getting estimates to renovate our bathrooms, and every contractor we have spoken to (who all came highly recommended on Checkbook) has said that they use grout at changes of planes. This runs contrary to everything I have ever heard/read/experienced; my understanding is that because grout isn't flexible, it is bound to crack in this application. Am I going crazy? If just one contractor would say this I would assume that they are cheap/lazy but everyone I've talked to has said the same thing.

So what I have learned is that silicon prevents the “dripping” of water down at the base of showers and bathtubs so that the hardy board in the back absorbs the water.

We have had a couple of our showers destroyed by this practice already.

The hardy board should NEVER be in contact with the water. The water will not damage the hardy board, but hardy board will absorb water and transfer moisture to space behind it, which is usually the wood studs. This will cause moisture build-up between the walls and eventually rot out the studs. There should be a complete waterproof layer between the tile and the hardy board. There are many ways to do this, but none of them involve caulk or grout. They are removed from the equation when it comes to waterproofing.

+1 on this. Complete waterproof layer between tile and hardy board or whatever your underlayment is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most contractors are clueless when it comes to tile showers. I would go straight to the source and hire a tile guy to install the shower. It is not a good sign if the contractor is not planning on caulking a change of plane .

Head on over to the John Bridge message board for legit info. I installed a couple of showers and those guys helped me through every step of the project. They are awesome! Also, Laticrete has silicone caulk that will match the color of your tile, so no worries there. But the PP is correct, you should be asking the contractor which method of waterproofing they use.

OP here. I've spent hours reading the John Bridge forums and for every one person who says silicone, there is another that says grout.

That's surprising. VERY high probability the grout will crack and will look like crap.

Silicone caulk is going to fail and discolor long before grout does. Grout is a lot stronger than it used to be; it's essentially concrete. Grout lines at the corners are thin and probably a color that isn't white (depending on your style). Even if it does crack, you'll never notice it. And the grout is no longer responsible for keeping in the water so cracks will never cause a shower leak.

Caulk in the corners is very 20 years ago. Bathrooms are built differently now.

It's important enough to repeat: grout was never for keeping the water out. There needs to be waterproofing behind the tile.

Both options have issues. Grout won't affect the waterproofing. It might crack but caulk will likely discolor and trap water underneath (mold). I have white grout in my bathrooms even for the change of planes. It did develop a hairline crack in one location only. I also have grout on my backsplash where the tiles meet the countertop and here the cracks are more visible (I regret not asking for caulk in this location). Overall, I find grout more esthetically pleasing. But I will have to fix it at some point, when we sell the house.
The bigger issue I had with grout is the efflorescence on my shower floor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most contractors are clueless when it comes to tile showers. I would go straight to the source and hire a tile guy to install the shower. It is not a good sign if the contractor is not planning on caulking a change of plane .

Head on over to the John Bridge message board for legit info. I installed a couple of showers and those guys helped me through every step of the project. They are awesome! Also, Laticrete has silicone caulk that will match the color of your tile, so no worries there. But the PP is correct, you should be asking the contractor which method of waterproofing they use.

OP here. I've spent hours reading the John Bridge forums and for every one person who says silicone, there is another that says grout.

That's surprising. VERY high probability the grout will crack and will look like crap.

Silicone caulk is going to fail and discolor long before grout does. Grout is a lot stronger than it used to be; it's essentially concrete. Grout lines at the corners are thin and probably a color that isn't white (depending on your style). Even if it does crack, you'll never notice it. And the grout is no longer responsible for keeping in the water so cracks will never cause a shower leak.

Caulk in the corners is very 20 years ago. Bathrooms are built differently now.

haha please tell us how bathrooms are "built differently" now. Even permacolor grout will crack in most residential applications (change of plane). I mean, you could use epoxy grout, but it's so strong that you will likely end up with cracked tile if there is any movement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most contractors are clueless when it comes to tile showers. I would go straight to the source and hire a tile guy to install the shower. It is not a good sign if the contractor is not planning on caulking a change of plane .

Head on over to the John Bridge message board for legit info. I installed a couple of showers and those guys helped me through every step of the project. They are awesome! Also, Laticrete has silicone caulk that will match the color of your tile, so no worries there. But the PP is correct, you should be asking the contractor which method of waterproofing they use.

OP here. I've spent hours reading the John Bridge forums and for every one person who says silicone, there is another that says grout.

That's surprising. VERY high probability the grout will crack and will look like crap.

Silicone caulk is going to fail and discolor long before grout does. Grout is a lot stronger than it used to be; it's essentially concrete. Grout lines at the corners are thin and probably a color that isn't white (depending on your style). Even if it does crack, you'll never notice it. And the grout is no longer responsible for keeping in the water so cracks will never cause a shower leak.

Caulk in the corners is very 20 years ago. Bathrooms are built differently now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most contractors are clueless when it comes to tile showers. I would go straight to the source and hire a tile guy to install the shower. It is not a good sign if the contractor is not planning on caulking a change of plane .

Head on over to the John Bridge message board for legit info. I installed a couple of showers and those guys helped me through every step of the project. They are awesome! Also, Laticrete has silicone caulk that will match the color of your tile, so no worries there. But the PP is correct, you should be asking the contractor which method of waterproofing they use.

OP here. I've spent hours reading the John Bridge forums and for every one person who says silicone, there is another that says grout.

That's surprising. VERY high probability the grout will crack and will look like crap.

Anonymous wrote:Most contractors are clueless when it comes to tile showers. I would go straight to the source and hire a tile guy to install the shower. It is not a good sign if the contractor is not planning on caulking a change of plane .

Head on over to the John Bridge message board for legit info. I installed a couple of showers and those guys helped me through every step of the project. They are awesome! Also, Laticrete has silicone caulk that will match the color of your tile, so no worries there. But the PP is correct, you should be asking the contractor which method of waterproofing they use.

OP here. I've spent hours reading the John Bridge forums and for every one person who says silicone, there is another that says grout.

Most contractors are clueless when it comes to tile showers. I would go straight to the source and hire a tile guy to install the shower. It is not a good sign if the contractor is not planning on caulking a change of plane .

Head on over to the John Bridge message board for legit info. I installed a couple of showers and those guys helped me through every step of the project. They are awesome! Also, Laticrete has silicone caulk that will match the color of your tile, so no worries there. But the PP is correct, you should be asking the contractor which method of waterproofing they use.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are getting estimates to renovate our bathrooms, and every contractor we have spoken to (who all came highly recommended on Checkbook) has said that they use grout at changes of planes. This runs contrary to everything I have ever heard/read/experienced; my understanding is that because grout isn't flexible, it is bound to crack in this application. Am I going crazy? If just one contractor would say this I would assume that they are cheap/lazy but everyone I've talked to has said the same thing.

So what I have learned is that silicon prevents the “dripping” of water down at the base of showers and bathtubs so that the hardy board in the back absorbs the water.

We have had a couple of our showers destroyed by this practice already.

The hardy board should NEVER be in contact with the water. The water will not damage the hardy board, but hardy board will absorb water and transfer moisture to space behind it, which is usually the wood studs. This will cause moisture build-up between the walls and eventually rot out the studs. There should be a complete waterproof layer between the tile and the hardy board. There are many ways to do this, but none of them involve caulk or grout. They are removed from the equation when it comes to waterproofing.

Anonymous wrote:We are getting estimates to renovate our bathrooms, and every contractor we have spoken to (who all came highly recommended on Checkbook) has said that they use grout at changes of planes. This runs contrary to everything I have ever heard/read/experienced; my understanding is that because grout isn't flexible, it is bound to crack in this application. Am I going crazy? If just one contractor would say this I would assume that they are cheap/lazy but everyone I've talked to has said the same thing.

So what I have learned is that silicon prevents the “dripping” of water down at the base of showers and bathtubs so that the hardy board in the back absorbs the water.

We have had a couple of our showers destroyed by this practice already.

Anonymous wrote:You're right, and yet somehow most of them get this wrong. I'd ask how they do their waterproofing instead, as a measure of competence.

The only correct answer is, "neither grout nor caulk is waterproofing. The waterproofing is done on the tile substrate. The tile, caulk and grout are just decorative finishes."

The way showers are built these days, it shouldn't matter at all if the grout is cracked because they are supposed to put a complete waterproof barrier beneath the tile. This could be a waterproof paint (a la RedGard), a flexible sheet liner, or a combination of both. They also use concrete board under the tile which will never warp or disintegrate (but will not stop water on its own without waterproofing on top of it). Additionally, the grout they use these days is much more sturdy than the old stuff. As one contractor told me, "This is not your father's grout."

After having three bathrooms remodeled by two different contractors, I have found they will do it they way they want no matter what you ask them to do. Caulk at the corners is one school of practice, but not the only one. The real question you should be asking is, "What kind of waterproof barrier are you using?"

You can mix the pigment into the silicon with a little sand.

Try a couple of different formulas to what matches best and is pretty rigid but still has minor amount of flex.

You're right, and yet somehow most of them get this wrong. I'd ask how they do their waterproofing instead, as a measure of competence.

We are getting estimates to renovate our bathrooms, and every contractor we have spoken to (who all came highly recommended on Checkbook) has said that they use grout at changes of planes. This runs contrary to everything I have ever heard/read/experienced; my understanding is that because grout isn't flexible, it is bound to crack in this application. Am I going crazy? If just one contractor would say this I would assume that they are cheap/lazy but everyone I've talked to has said the same thing.