Anonymous wrote:Vacation means a lot of different things to different people...is it a week of camping or a trip to Europe.

Including saving for college in this is crazy making. The in state sticker price for UVA with room and board and fees and whatnot is $35K. 4 years is $140K per kid. I know that folks get grants/loans/scholarships/etc. But you have no real idea what those will be and likely college costs will continue to climb.

I make much much much more than middle class money now (haven't for very long) but have three kids, and the $140K times 3= $420K low ball number for college costs is super daunting to us.

Lol, you don't make "much much much more than middle class money," or saving $420K wouldn't be hard for you.

Middle class is $70K -$120K

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is not middle class lifestyle.

What do you consider a middle class lifestyle?

Own home
No retirement saving but maybe retirement from work
No college savings
Working poor
Vacation at local beach is a stretch

275k

I think low six figures is middle class. Mid-high six figures is UMC. Low seven figures is UC.

Vacation means a lot of different things to different people...is it a week of camping or a trip to Europe.

Including saving for college in this is crazy making. The in state sticker price for UVA with room and board and fees and whatnot is $35K. 4 years is $140K per kid. I know that folks get grants/loans/scholarships/etc. But you have no real idea what those will be and likely college costs will continue to climb.

I make much much much more than middle class money now (haven't for very long) but have three kids, and the $140K times 3= $420K low ball number for college costs is super daunting to us.

The problem with your list is that it's based on a concept of the middle class from 1955. When houses were cheaper, "travel" meant a car ride to the beach (only rich people and business travelers flew), college was waaaaaaay cheaper, and many people's retirement plan was "move in with my kids."

Now real estate is incredibly expensive (especially in DC, where these teachers live), travel is costly whether you're driving to the beach or flying to Europe (in some cases a trip to Europe will cost less than a week at the beach), and college is so expensive it's laughable.

In order to do those things in the current economy, you need to be well above MC, with an HHI of at least 200k, probably more like 300-400k in this area because of cost of housing. And that's not middle class.

That's why it's called the "middle class squeeze." Actual middle class people (like me, we're a family of 3 in DC with an HHI of 140k) are struggling to buy homes, which is historically how middle class people built wealth and economic stability. And even if they can buy a home, they struggle to save for college and retirement (especially simultaneously) while also dealing with rising costs of basics like food and gas, as well as what used to be middle class staples, like modest vacations.

DC is working hard to eliminate its middle class. That's why most teachers live outside the district where they can afford homes with good schools while still having enough money left over for the occasional dinner out or a long weekend in Philadelphia or a spring break trip to Disneyworld with the kids. DC is becoming a city where only wealthy people can afford to live comfortably, and where any public funds to help the non-wealthy need to be channeled to people in true poverty because basics are so expensive that there is nothing left over to help working and middle class people with a leg up.

Anonymous wrote:Oh goody. Time for the weekly argument over what is middle class.

Because OP couldn't possibly open one of the dozen or two existing threads on the same topic, she had to start yet another new thread on an overdone topic.

And you had to add yet another asinine response.

To answer your question OP and to further the discussion - I do not think a HHI of 130K is enough to live comfortably in the city (achieving everything listed out) assuming you have a family. As a single person, yes.

Oh goody. Time for the weekly argument over what is middle class.

Because OP couldn't possibly open one of the dozen or two existing threads on the same topic, she had to start yet another new thread on an overdone topic.

Anonymous wrote:Saw the new salary increase for DC teachers which made me wonder what salary range (or HHI) would you classify as being able to live comfortably?

Of course, this is dependent on household size as well, but what salary range do you think would provide people with the following lifestyle in the DMV:

- Afford to own home (SFM, Townhome, or other)
- Vacation
- Save for retirement/general savings
- Children expenses
- Save for college

OR do you think the new salary (63 k starting, 130k max) for teachers will allow them to achieve the above^

Considering the average teacher is female in a dual income household yes.

Anonymous wrote:That is not middle class lifestyle.

NP. In what ways is that not a middle class lifestyle?

OP, you need to clarify this ask more. Do you mean a single income household living within the city limits? No middle class people can do that without making some serious sacrifices and compromises. Normal middle class people live in the suburbs and commute, and need two incomes to maintain that lifestyle. And many normal middle class people are getting priced out of home ownership right now because of rising interest rates. Interest rates are adding an extra $1,500 a month to your mortgage payment, and normal middle class people can't absorb that without making cuts elsewhere. I have teacher friends in other states that try to support their families on just a teachers salary and receive public benefits to do so. Teaching in the US isn't a high paying career and lower paying careers in general require a higher income spouse or a lower standard of living. But yes, two teachers making $100k+ (since they should have a few years as DINKS to work their way up the salary scale) and commuting from the suburbs should be fine if they stick with biannual family beach trips and cheap extracurriculars for their kids. That's what middle class people everywhere do.

Anonymous wrote:That is not middle class lifestyle.

What do you consider a middle class lifestyle?

Anonymous wrote:Saw the new salary increase for DC teachers which made me wonder what salary range (or HHI) would you classify as being able to live comfortably?

Of course, this is dependent on household size as well, but what salary range do you think would provide people with the following lifestyle in the DMV:

- Afford to own home (SFM, Townhome, or other)
- Vacation
- Save for retirement/general savings
- Children expenses
- Save for college

OR do you think the new salary (63 k starting, 130k max) for teachers will allow them to achieve the above^

You need a married couple with both people at GS15-step 10

That is not middle class lifestyle.

Saw the new salary increase for DC teachers which made me wonder what salary range (or HHI) would you classify as being able to live comfortably?

Of course, this is dependent on household size as well, but what salary range do you think would provide people with the following lifestyle in the DMV:

- Afford to own home (SFM, Townhome, or other)
- Vacation
- Save for retirement/general savings
- Children expenses
- Save for college

OR do you think the new salary (63 k starting, 130k max) for teachers will allow them to achieve the above^