Schools should disclose data and information rather than hide

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean return to the prehistoric days where there were no rankings and kids applied to whatever school they’d heard of? No thanks. I’d rather see schools noticed for their efforts to improve programs. Sure there’s lots of gaming but it’s better than NO information.

No rankings doesn't mean "no information". We have the internet now, and there's no reason an org like US News or other outlets can't compile information on colleges that is relevant to students and their families. It's actually possible to provide info like:

- What majors are offered
- A school's reputation in a given industry
- Post-graduate employment statistics
- Average class size
- Student survey results on campus culture, accessibility of professors, and overall experience

And so on. But different students can want or need wildly different things in a school. So having a single list that ranks US colleges and universities based on a relatively narrow set of factors (all of which are "game-able" for the university) is nonsensical. The only people who like it are the hyper-competitive parents and kids who want the bragging rights of attending a "top" school regardless of whether the school is a good fit for their kids.

+1 Here's a good essay on why (and how) people should make their own rankings based on what's important to them using info that's easily available to anyone.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/

I think the real issue is that the rankings don’t encourage the schools to change. When a huge chunk of your rankings is from peer reviews (law professors), they rank based on what they know. What do law professors know? Law review articles. So you need to hire professors that publish respected law review articles, even if (a) those law review articles are useless outside academia and (b) don’t have any practically legal skills to pass on to their students.

Yale is ironically okay because the current law school teaching method really only prepares you for appeals level clerkships (somewhat). Schools really need to change to teach the NYU crowd how to draft commercial agreements and the WVUs trail skills to be ADAs and public defenders and UF students how to draft trust language and probate. Instead, every school teaches you (and tests you on) how to be an appeals clerk. Especially considering the cost and time involved. If you want to keep the teaching theoretical, at least make it a UG major.

15:47 here again.

Also, the ABA consumer disclosure standards require every law school to post a lot of information on their websites for potential students to review. It includes information on GPA/LSAT, employment outcomes, scholarship details, etc. What it doesn't include are the "peer review" scores which keep the T14 in the same place every year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school rankings are a slightly different kettle of fish. The T14 virtually never change, and every law firm knows what those are, so either way, not a huge impact.

From another angle, however, this makes one wonder what Yale feels it needs to hide.

It probably has to do with the employment category. Reading the methodology, certain jobs score highest. Yale places a lot of clerks (short term) and send graduates to academia (depending on the job, no JD or bar passage required)

Judicial clerks typically count as long-term employment in USNews as long as it's for a term of approx 1 year or more. Any job that is JD Advantage FT LT, gets the same credit as a Bar Required/Aniticipated FT LT Job.

I live and breathe these law school stats. Yale's issue is with "law school funded" fellowships that are otherwise Bar Required, FT, LT, not getting full credit. Yale has a history of these fellowships and has many of them. They are getting dinged for those. Many law schools started doing the law school funded thing in the 2011-2012 period when we were in a recession, so Yale didn't get hit as hard, but now many schools don't do them anymore.

Coming soon: The LIV ranking of colleges and universities.

Why didn't you put Yale LAW school in the title LOL

what a coward.
just law school LOL

Anonymous wrote:You mean return to the prehistoric days where there were no rankings and kids applied to whatever school they’d heard of? No thanks. I’d rather see schools noticed for their efforts to improve programs. Sure there’s lots of gaming but it’s better than NO information.

No rankings doesn't mean "no information". We have the internet now, and there's no reason an org like US News or other outlets can't compile information on colleges that is relevant to students and their families. It's actually possible to provide info like:

- What majors are offered
- A school's reputation in a given industry
- Post-graduate employment statistics
- Average class size
- Student survey results on campus culture, accessibility of professors, and overall experience

And so on. But different students can want or need wildly different things in a school. So having a single list that ranks US colleges and universities based on a relatively narrow set of factors (all of which are "game-able" for the university) is nonsensical. The only people who like it are the hyper-competitive parents and kids who want the bragging rights of attending a "top" school regardless of whether the school is a good fit for their kids.

Anonymous wrote:You mean return to the prehistoric days where there were no rankings and kids applied to whatever school they’d heard of? No thanks. I’d rather see schools noticed for their efforts to improve programs. Sure there’s lots of gaming but it’s better than NO information.

95% of kids still end up attending the same colleges in their region, within a couple hours of home.. The rankings frenzy is pointless. It's always been a big racket and needs to go away like the dodo bird. Its out-sized influence is sad and has been nothing but detrimental to admissions and the gaming and fraud that occurs to juke the data.

Anonymous wrote:Law school rankings are a slightly different kettle of fish. The T14 virtually never change, and every law firm knows what those are, so either way, not a huge impact.

From another angle, however, this makes one wonder what Yale feels it needs to hide.

It probably has to do with the employment category. Reading the methodology, certain jobs score highest. Yale places a lot of clerks (short term) and send graduates to academia (depending on the job, no JD or bar passage required)

Law school rankings are a slightly different kettle of fish. The T14 virtually never change, and every law firm knows what those are, so either way, not a huge impact.

From another angle, however, this makes one wonder what Yale feels it needs to hide.

I'm sure Northeastern will be right behind them...

You mean return to the prehistoric days where there were no rankings and kids applied to whatever school they’d heard of? No thanks. I’d rather see schools noticed for their efforts to improve programs. Sure there’s lots of gaming but it’s better than NO information.

Yale Law School won't participate anymore. Others will soon follow, right?