Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

The universities don't want to expand because they don't have the resources. Add 500 kids to your freshman class and by time they are seniors you have 2000 more students on campus. Is there space in all facilities (dorms/library/classrooms/dining/etc)? Can classes still be small sizes? Answer to that is no. Just look at many T50 schools who have had slightly larger classes the past 2-3 years (as in 200 students or so) and see the impacts on housing alone. I wouldn't want my kid at a school that adds students without adding infratstructure first.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very curious to see how much MIT application numbers go down now that no longer TO

I would imagine the MIT applicant pool will be stable with or without a test. Similar to TJ.
You either want that or can't imagine anything worse (and this is irrespective of your grads/stats)

MIT isn’t on the common app and it’s application is A LOT of work. I’m sure many applied TO over past few years because grades were good and didn’t have to submit test scores. I can’t imagine anyone doing that much work now if their test scores aren’t in the ballpark for acceptance.

MIT does it right.. with 5 essays, only people who think have a chance would have applied. lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very curious to see how much MIT application numbers go down now that no longer TO

I would imagine the MIT applicant pool will be stable with or without a test. Similar to TJ.
You either want that or can't imagine anything worse (and this is irrespective of your grads/stats)

MIT isn’t on the common app and it’s application is A LOT of work. I’m sure many applied TO over past few years because grades were good and didn’t have to submit test scores. I can’t imagine anyone doing that much work now if their test scores aren’t in the ballpark for acceptance.

it's because more kids are applying to more schools.

Anonymous wrote:I’m very curious to see how much MIT application numbers go down now that no longer TO

I would imagine the MIT applicant pool will be stable with or without a test. Similar to TJ.
You either want that or can't imagine anything worse (and this is irrespective of your grads/stats)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

I’m very curious to see how much MIT application numbers go down now that no longer TO

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

Anonymous wrote:I see that at many, many (most?) schools, application numbers are up -- over the past few years. At the same time, most schools haven't increased student body sizes. So just based on more applications, acceptance rates are lower. But assuming the number of kids has stayed about the same, what is the overall affect?

Genuinely not sure of the answer and also confused.

Well the number of kids now able to apply to Top/elite schools has changed. With Test Optional many more students with good GPAs are willing to write the supplemental essays and apply to T50 schools simply because of test optional. So I don't think there are more kids actually going to college but the numbers applying to T50 has increased. And more kids are applying to more schools (20 years ago kids didn't apply to 20+ schools). So yes while each kid can only go to 1 school, they can apply to 20and the more that do that means the acceptance rates are driven lower

At top-x schools, the pool of qualified applicants was enlarged significantly by test optional policies. The same (or fewer) students will be accepted, as test optional applicants are associated higher yield. Acceptance rates will remain lower unless schools go back to requiring test scores.

Bottom line: the range of schools appropriately considered to be targets and safeties for high-stats applicants has changed, as fewer high-scoring applicants can be admitted to top-x schools. This is especially true along the continuum of "lower" (less than top) grades.

The effect of test optional (not having to submit SAT or ACT scores), are that many thousands of students who would never have applied to top 50 (maybe top 100) schools are applying, and some are getting in. This means some top test takers are not getting in at top schools. This means every student has to apply to more schools in order to get in somewhere they are willing to attend, even if it is not their top 1st, 3rd, or even 5th choice.

The results a few years from now will influence the future of TO. Are the TO students graduating, going on to meaningful employment or dropping out.

Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

The same number of students will attend the school. However, the process is more uncertain for the applicants. With more applicants, the schools can select for the students that meet their internal priorities, which are opaque to the applicants. (Do they want students from all 50 states? Do they need students who play specific instrument?Are interested in their fancy new major? Do they want more full-pay students? More Pell grant recipients? Both?)

Bump

I see that at many, many (most?) schools, application numbers are up -- over the past few years. At the same time, most schools haven't increased student body sizes. So just based on more applications, acceptance rates are lower. But assuming the number of kids has stayed about the same, what is the overall affect?

Genuinely not sure of the answer and also confused.