Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work a couple years first. Go to a T14 or go for free. If you don't have either of those options, don't go. For undergrad, fit is way more important than prestige; for law school, the reverse is true.

Darn. Those slackers at UCLA law school will be disappointed to learn that they made a big mistake in law school choice. 🙄

Please understand, it doesn’t make sense, but it’s true that the T14 places meaningfully better and more consistently than the rest. Facts are often eyeroll inducing but that doesn’t make them not facts.

UCLA specifically is a strong example of my point. The LA market is not particularly robust and UCLA kids have to battle against Berkeley and Stanford grads for those spots (along with all the Harvard and Yale kids who want that warm weather). A counter example is UTexas, because the Texas market is so strong and so faithful to UT.

He does not need a law degree to work in public policy. Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. Work a few years first with lawyers to see if it’s a good fit because it’s a big investment of time and money. Understand that, as alluded to above, “do good” legal jobs that don’t necessarily pay that well are very competitive and prestige driven.

Anonymous wrote:I know there are alot of lawyers on this board, and I also know that there was a glut of lawyers in recent years making it a risky endeavor at high cost. What type of kid or specialty would you suggest going to law school nowadays? Is it more common to go right to law school or work a bit first? I'm talking about attendance to a top 30 ranked law school, not a no name law school. DC is interested in environmental law as well as pubic policy. He will graduate undergrad from a top 25 university with no debt but we can't help him with grad school costs.

Things to consider?

Are you aware that Columbia Law is now $110 a year? And Harvard at $105? And you are paying that in after tax dollars? Do you have $330K lying about?

Anonymous wrote:Work a couple years first. Go to a T14 or go for free. If you don't have either of those options, don't go. For undergrad, fit is way more important than prestige; for law school, the reverse is true.

Darn. Those slackers at UCLA law school will be disappointed to learn that they made a big mistake in law school choice. 🙄

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He needs to research environmental law jobs and understand what that actually entails.

He has started that a bit.

Getting a government spot doing environmental law means you need to go to a top school and do well. Those jobs are filled with Harvard and Yale grads. You'll have an okay salary, but will be counting on the government forgiving your loans.

The other option is going into BigLaw and to defend companies in their quest to destroy the environment. You will be able to pay off your loans, but it isn't a job for a value-driven environmentalist.

If you can't get a prestigious federal job or get into Biglaw, if you are lucky, then you will make a subsistence wage filing petitions for local companies and individuals. More likely you won't get a legal job at all.

Practical free lawyerly advice.

Anonymous wrote:T14 might be worth it

If you think the economy is going to crash, then the upper half of the T14 is safer than the lower half. Not safe, but safer if we have a recession.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He needs to research environmental law jobs and understand what that actually entails.

He has started that a bit.

Getting a government spot doing environmental law means you need to go to a top school and do well. Those jobs are filled with Harvard and Yale grads. You'll have an okay salary, but will be counting on the government forgiving your loans.

The other option is going into BigLaw and to defend companies in their quest to destroy the environment. You will be able to pay off your loans, but it isn't a job for a value-driven environmentalist.

If you can't get a prestigious federal job or get into Biglaw, if you are lucky, then you will make a subsistence wage filing petitions for local companies and individuals. More likely you won't get a legal job at all.

Anonymous wrote:He needs to research environmental law jobs and understand what that actually entails.

He has started that a bit.

He needs to research environmental law jobs and understand what that actually entails.

I went straight to law school and don’t regret it. The sooner you start school, the sooner you finish and can start paying off the debts. I was able to pay off a chunk while still in my 20s when I didn’t mind loving like a student so they didn’t hold me back from life goals like owning a house or having kids. If I had graduated at 28, it would have been hard to buy a house at 30.

I also really enjoy being a lawyer. We are rare, but we exist and rarely post on DCUM. So don’t take what you read here as completely representative. I have never worked at firm bc I am too smart - those people are miserable to varying degrees.

Law school was single handedly one of the worst decisions I made. Went to a T50 with instate tuition about 10 years ago. It did nothing to prepare me to practice, cost me ~90k I am still paying off, and did not lead to a stable career with a clear path forward until very recently. The last point causing many life issues. I spent many years making between 60-75k that made me think I was never going to hit an income level I was comfortable with while watching peers that go on to successful careers from not great ranked undergrads with sub 3.0 GPAs after paying their dues in industry for a couple years.

Further, my first job out of law school was working for a small firm full of ex big law attorneys. It was so mismanaged and run by a lunatic that my doctor told me I had the heart of 50 year old when I was 28 due to the stress. I think I sent out close to 300 resumes until I was able to get out of that job 20 months after I started. This is what happens when your school can’t place 40% of the class within 9 month of graduating and the next crop of law graduates is applying for jobs. Last I checked the school still couldn’t despite cutting 100 students from the class.

In addition, law school itself was “curved” but not by the school. Just by an agreement from the professors, some of whom thought the curve was a B and other thought it was a B-… So even though employers would only interview people within a certain class rank. I don’t know if the class ranks were even accurate…

As others have said, the T14 vs everywhere else distinction is real. I went to a “lower” T14 (Northwestern) and it was fairly rare for someone not to get biglaw or a prestigious public interest job. Same cannot be said for people I know who went to other solid, but non T14 schools.

Work a couple years first. Go to a T14 or go for free. If you don't have either of those options, don't go. For undergrad, fit is way more important than prestige; for law school, the reverse is true.

T14 might be worth it

I know there are alot of lawyers on this board, and I also know that there was a glut of lawyers in recent years making it a risky endeavor at high cost. What type of kid or specialty would you suggest going to law school nowadays? Is it more common to go right to law school or work a bit first? I'm talking about attendance to a top 30 ranked law school, not a no name law school. DC is interested in environmental law as well as pubic policy. He will graduate undergrad from a top 25 university with no debt but we can't help him with grad school costs.

Things to consider?