Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 17:58     Subject: Re:how to help a kids without number sense
I would look into Marilyn's Multisensory Math: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsr0EpLr3A
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 17:45     Subject: Re:how to help a kids without number sense
I would provide her opportunities to represent math problems with real items. Young children are concrete thinkers; abstraction is harder for them. Look up math manipulatives and you will find many products designed to let kids work out the math with objects.

For the ones, tens, hundreds thinking, this is a good set to get:
https://www.lakeshorelearning.com/products/math/math-manipulatives/base-10-hands-on-student-pack/p/GG845

Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 17:28     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Anonymous wrote:I have a 3rd grader that struggles with math. She can do enough to get by in school and not stand out (many of her classmates are struggling or worse and don't have parents at home able to help) but I'm concerned. She both missed some critical building blocks during the almost 1.5 years her school was virtual and I don't think has much innate math ability (she IS super strong in ELA).

Her teacher is great but I am having trouble articulating to her what I see at home .. this just lack of intuitive number sense.

And, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the same in their children and been able to help either themselves or by more official tutoring. (Examples include being able to say there are 1s 10s and 100s and showing place value but not really understanding what that means.)



She might be more of a hands on learner. Instead of a computer based learning I would suggest getting a place value kit (you can even make it, it’s easy, Google it) and then practice with her. What are some other areas that she’s struggling with? In our school, many kids 3rd and up struggle with subtraction regrouping. Word problems are also an issue for some, so you might want to come up with problems such as - Andy has 154 Pokémon card and Jake has 290 Pokémon cards. How many more cards does Jake have? Rounding numbers and estimating - to the nearest 10, 100 and so on… equal, more less than, something like this: 4+8=6+6…this is what gen ed 3rd grade is doing right now. You just need to work with her, don’t expect school to help more. They have enough kids to deal with that are way behind even the basics.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 16:43     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
I'm happy to do it with her. She thrives when she can get attention from me, away from siblings. So, maybe it will make it feel like more of a nice thing than extra homework.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 15:41     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Anonymous wrote:
My son has dyscalculia, a specific disability in math, diagnosed at the same time as his ADHD and dysgraphia.

He has always needed math re-teaching at home, with us at first, then a tutor in high school. With that support, he's been able to get to AP Calc BC as a senior, and do reasonably well.


As parent of a 10 year old just diagnosed with dyscalculia, I appreciate this post.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 15:36     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is OP and I am so very grateful for the beast academy suggestion!! I have mostly found Kumon and Khan academy and neither approach has sounded right for her. (She has a fine memory but I want her to start understanding that numbers are conveying meaning about the real world and this looks like it has that goal.)

And, I totally agree that starting with 1st grade will make sense. It's those building blocks that seem so lacking. (Which isn't surprising given that 1st grade was about 20 minutes of math 4 days a week from school.)



OP, I think Beast Academy level 2 would be a fine place to start, as they start working on place value very quickly which will help her build a lot of number sense and connect the dots. Again, I highly recommend you sitting next to her to help guide her whenever she gets frustrated/stuck, as very, very, few kids could truly handle BA on their own. It sounds hard, but it really is not (assuming you can understand elementary school math, even if it's presented at a challenging level like BA does. Worst case you have selected hints to the tougher questions, as well as full solutions in the back of each BA workbook). BA is by far the most difficult elementary program out there, but it can lead to huge rewards if used correctly. If you start slow and gentle and guide her thinking by asking questions when she gets stuck, you will find that at some point she will start to get it, and later on down the line she will be able to do more of it with confidence and independence, with less guidance from you. This is what I've done with my kid and has worked out beautifully so far (and I admit, as an already avid math fan, I've learned some new techniques myself!).

DP Agree with this. Doing it together is key. As PP says, it is the rare kid who naturally takes to doing an outside math program without guidance and encouragement. (Before someone responds, I'm sure there are some, but not many!)
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 14:58     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense

My son has dyscalculia, a specific disability in math, diagnosed at the same time as his ADHD and dysgraphia.

He has always needed math re-teaching at home, with us at first, then a tutor in high school. With that support, he's been able to get to AP Calc BC as a senior, and do reasonably well.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 14:54     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Anonymous wrote:This is OP and I am so very grateful for the beast academy suggestion!! I have mostly found Kumon and Khan academy and neither approach has sounded right for her. (She has a fine memory but I want her to start understanding that numbers are conveying meaning about the real world and this looks like it has that goal.)

And, I totally agree that starting with 1st grade will make sense. It's those building blocks that seem so lacking. (Which isn't surprising given that 1st grade was about 20 minutes of math 4 days a week from school.)



OP, I think Beast Academy level 2 would be a fine place to start, as they start working on place value very quickly which will help her build a lot of number sense and connect the dots. Again, I highly recommend you sitting next to her to help guide her whenever she gets frustrated/stuck, as very, very, few kids could truly handle BA on their own. It sounds hard, but it really is not (assuming you can understand elementary school math, even if it's presented at a challenging level like BA does. Worst case you have selected hints to the tougher questions, as well as full solutions in the back of each BA workbook). BA is by far the most difficult elementary program out there, but it can lead to huge rewards if used correctly. If you start slow and gentle and guide her thinking by asking questions when she gets stuck, you will find that at some point she will start to get it, and later on down the line she will be able to do more of it with confidence and independence, with less guidance from you. This is what I've done with my kid and has worked out beautifully so far (and I admit, as an already avid math fan, I've learned some new techniques myself!).
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 14:47     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
This is OP and I am so very grateful for the beast academy suggestion!! I have mostly found Kumon and Khan academy and neither approach has sounded right for her. (She has a fine memory but I want her to start understanding that numbers are conveying meaning about the real world and this looks like it has that goal.)

And, I totally agree that starting with 1st grade will make sense. It's those building blocks that seem so lacking. (Which isn't surprising given that 1st grade was about 20 minutes of math 4 days a week from school.)

Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 14:42     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
I like Beast Academy a lot, but I am not convinced that it is the best tool for someone struggling with math. The modal BA student is someone who finds the pace of math at his or her school much too slow, though occasionally a more average student will use it at a lower level to help shore up concepts.

Instead, I would support developing your daughter's "number sense" intuition through use a of a program like Kumon or Rod and Staff Math (disclaimer: Christian), whose focus is on fluid calculation. The more conceptual Singapore Math US Ed. would possibly make for another good option, possibly with the addition of the "Extra Practice" workbooks, which provide, well, extra practice on top of the main textbook/workbook combo.

If she starts breezing through the above, then maybe the problem was that she got off track during virtual school and Beast Academy really would be a good fit. But given the situation as described, I wouldn't try that first.

If even R&S or Kumon do not seem to stick, then it might be worth looking at some of the "tools" used for dyscalculia. People I know who work with that population tend to be big fans of Ronit Bird.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 14:38     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Co-sign on Beast Academy!
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 14:17     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
My daughter was highly gifted in language arts, but had to work hard in math. I wish I had had her do some kind of program in those early years.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 11:48     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have a 3rd grader that struggles with math. She can do enough to get by in school and not stand out (many of her classmates are struggling or worse and don't have parents at home able to help) but I'm concerned. She both missed some critical building blocks during the almost 1.5 years her school was virtual and I don't think has much innate math ability (she IS super strong in ELA).

Her teacher is great but I am having trouble articulating to her what I see at home .. this just lack of intuitive number sense.

And, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the same in their children and been able to help either themselves or by more official tutoring. (Examples include being able to say there are 1s 10s and 100s and showing place value but not really understanding what that means.)

Distance learning was tough for building a strong math base. You may want to try AoPS's Beast Academy online or their Academy in-person program. Their program is excellent for building number sense. You may want to start her in their first grade Beast program, so that she gets the benefit of their development sequence. She would already know the base concepts and thus move through pretty quickly, but there will undoubtedly be approaches and creative exercises that will still challenge her because their program is so deep and rich. By going back a grade or two, you ensure she has no gaps. It's common for kids to begin AoPS for an earlier grade than where they are, when they first start the AoPS sequence. It's also good for their interest level and confidence to begin at a point where they feel comfortable. If she's super strong in ELA, it may just be that she hasn't been inspired in math yet, rather than any lack of math ability. Beast uses cartoon characters which actually makes math fun!


Completely agree with PP here, Beast Academy is an excellent, but challenging program. I want to add that for this program it's important to gently help/guide your kids, as they may struggle to fully do everything independently. But in my opinion this is a good thing, you will learn new things and ways to intuitively think about math (as I did when I solved problems along with my kid in the last couple of years that we've gone through the Beast Academy series). If you do this regularly as a team (maybe 30 mins/day), you will find that your daughter will not only develop a strong number sense, she will also learn a lot of math that isn't being taught/shown in school, and hopefully will also develop a strong interest/curiosity in the subject.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 11:17     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
Anonymous wrote:I have a 3rd grader that struggles with math. She can do enough to get by in school and not stand out (many of her classmates are struggling or worse and don't have parents at home able to help) but I'm concerned. She both missed some critical building blocks during the almost 1.5 years her school was virtual and I don't think has much innate math ability (she IS super strong in ELA).

Her teacher is great but I am having trouble articulating to her what I see at home .. this just lack of intuitive number sense.

And, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the same in their children and been able to help either themselves or by more official tutoring. (Examples include being able to say there are 1s 10s and 100s and showing place value but not really understanding what that means.)

Distance learning was tough for building a strong math base. You may want to try AoPS's Beast Academy online or their Academy in-person program. Their program is excellent for building number sense. You may want to start her in their first grade Beast program, so that she gets the benefit of their development sequence. She would already know the base concepts and thus move through pretty quickly, but there will undoubtedly be approaches and creative exercises that will still challenge her because their program is so deep and rich. By going back a grade or two, you ensure she has no gaps. It's common for kids to begin AoPS for an earlier grade than where they are, when they first start the AoPS sequence. It's also good for their interest level and confidence to begin at a point where they feel comfortable. If she's super strong in ELA, it may just be that she hasn't been inspired in math yet, rather than any lack of math ability. Beast uses cartoon characters which actually makes math fun!
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2022 10:57     Subject: how to help a kids without number sense
I have a 3rd grader that struggles with math. She can do enough to get by in school and not stand out (many of her classmates are struggling or worse and don't have parents at home able to help) but I'm concerned. She both missed some critical building blocks during the almost 1.5 years her school was virtual and I don't think has much innate math ability (she IS super strong in ELA).

Her teacher is great but I am having trouble articulating to her what I see at home .. this just lack of intuitive number sense.

And, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the same in their children and been able to help either themselves or by more official tutoring. (Examples include being able to say there are 1s 10s and 100s and showing place value but not really understanding what that means.)