Hi op, it sounds like you are on track in many ways, have you considered kids way in color better bites program? I think it goes into more detail to answer some of these more specific questions that can be tough to navigate (like how to be considerate without catering, and how to get beyond just offering for a kid who will just never try something like you describe without pressuring). For example for the considerate not catering I think what you’re doing sounds exactly like what I’ve read, making sure there is always a safe food but usually you want to not always offer the same safe food but that is hard when it gets to the point you’re at so I think additional help would really help. And then she also helps with strategies to increase exposure beyond the just offering I think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the best food advice I've ever read has come from Ellyn Satter. I would highly recommend picking up a book by her and really following it.

Everything she does is based on the division of responsibility. You decide what to serve & when, and your child decides IF and how much to eat. Her approach includes ensuring there is a plain carb on the table plus milk so that kids can manage if they don't want to try anything else.

The key is just dropping the rope, and not commenting on their food choices. That means no coaxing, as well as no praise. It needs to be neutral.

I follow her advice pretty closely, including serving a small portion of dessert with dinner and not having any negotiations at all around whether they get it. It's a small portion so they can't fill up on it. One of my sons always eats it first, and the other saves it until the end.

One of the main reasons I recommend her is that dinner has never been a battle in our house. The kids don't feel anxious about what's being served, or shamed when they won't try it. There is no arguing, arm twisting, negotiation etc.

Disclaimer: this doesn't work for 100% of children, especially if there are special needs. But from the way your describe your situation, and how lunch has already improved, it sounds like normal childhood pickiness here.

This is OP. Thank you! I have read her book and that's the approach we started with when my oldest was a toddler. We stuck with it for awhile, but what do you do when your kid almost ALWAYS eats only bread and NEVER tries the fruits or vegetables or foods outside their comfort zone? Like, never. My oldest is better and I almost never say anything about what he eats. But even he never eats the fruits or vegetables on offer at dinner and still won't touch anything with ground beef in it. Or when we have breakfast for dinner they have nothing but pancakes and don't touch the sausage, fruit, or eggs. Do at some point you say no more pancakes until you eat the rest of your food?

I’m the PP… I would definitely say that to my kids. I have seen so many kids end up with chronic constipation and needing to take Miralax daily due to Ellen Sattyr-ish philosophy (obviously there are many ways to implement). But I always made clear to my kids, food is for health. Some things we eat not because they are our favorites but because our body needs them to be healthy. They fussed at stages but they now eat all kinds of greens and other veggies not only dutifully but enthusiastically — they genuinely love the taste. I don’t think they would have gotten there if I had caved at the cracker/bread/pasta stage when that was clearly their preferred food. So again, YMMV, but I just don’t agree with kids making all these choices for themselves. We play a big role in shaping how they understand what that choice even means. I don’t think a 2 year old can decide on a healthy diet in the world of processed food we inhabit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the best food advice I've ever read has come from Ellyn Satter. I would highly recommend picking up a book by her and really following it.

Everything she does is based on the division of responsibility. You decide what to serve & when, and your child decides IF and how much to eat. Her approach includes ensuring there is a plain carb on the table plus milk so that kids can manage if they don't want to try anything else.

The key is just dropping the rope, and not commenting on their food choices. That means no coaxing, as well as no praise. It needs to be neutral.

I follow her advice pretty closely, including serving a small portion of dessert with dinner and not having any negotiations at all around whether they get it. It's a small portion so they can't fill up on it. One of my sons always eats it first, and the other saves it until the end.

One of the main reasons I recommend her is that dinner has never been a battle in our house. The kids don't feel anxious about what's being served, or shamed when they won't try it. There is no arguing, arm twisting, negotiation etc.

Disclaimer: this doesn't work for 100% of children, especially if there are special needs. But from the way your describe your situation, and how lunch has already improved, it sounds like normal childhood pickiness here.

This is OP. Thank you! I have read her book and that's the approach we started with when my oldest was a toddler. We stuck with it for awhile, but what do you do when your kid almost ALWAYS eats only bread and NEVER tries the fruits or vegetables or foods outside their comfort zone? Like, never. My oldest is better and I almost never say anything about what he eats. But even he never eats the fruits or vegetables on offer at dinner and still won't touch anything with ground beef in it. Or when we have breakfast for dinner they have nothing but pancakes and don't touch the sausage, fruit, or eggs. Do at some point you say no more pancakes until you eat the rest of your food?

My oldest is 7 and just now seems to get the idea of a balanced meal after years of matter of factly talking about the different things we get from different foods. My kids both have some significant issues so we are committed to not making food a battle but my BEST tip is to offer a fruit or vegetable appetizer before meals. They don’t have to wait but it’s like a whole separate course that is offered when they are hungriest. I also allow fruits and vegetables any time of day but carbs are more during designated snack or meal times

Sorry that should say they don’t have to eat it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the best food advice I've ever read has come from Ellyn Satter. I would highly recommend picking up a book by her and really following it.

Everything she does is based on the division of responsibility. You decide what to serve & when, and your child decides IF and how much to eat. Her approach includes ensuring there is a plain carb on the table plus milk so that kids can manage if they don't want to try anything else.

The key is just dropping the rope, and not commenting on their food choices. That means no coaxing, as well as no praise. It needs to be neutral.

I follow her advice pretty closely, including serving a small portion of dessert with dinner and not having any negotiations at all around whether they get it. It's a small portion so they can't fill up on it. One of my sons always eats it first, and the other saves it until the end.

One of the main reasons I recommend her is that dinner has never been a battle in our house. The kids don't feel anxious about what's being served, or shamed when they won't try it. There is no arguing, arm twisting, negotiation etc.

Disclaimer: this doesn't work for 100% of children, especially if there are special needs. But from the way your describe your situation, and how lunch has already improved, it sounds like normal childhood pickiness here.

This is OP. Thank you! I have read her book and that's the approach we started with when my oldest was a toddler. We stuck with it for awhile, but what do you do when your kid almost ALWAYS eats only bread and NEVER tries the fruits or vegetables or foods outside their comfort zone? Like, never. My oldest is better and I almost never say anything about what he eats. But even he never eats the fruits or vegetables on offer at dinner and still won't touch anything with ground beef in it. Or when we have breakfast for dinner they have nothing but pancakes and don't touch the sausage, fruit, or eggs. Do at some point you say no more pancakes until you eat the rest of your food?

My oldest is 7 and just now seems to get the idea of a balanced meal after years of matter of factly talking about the different things we get from different foods. My kids both have some significant issues so we are committed to not making food a battle but my BEST tip is to offer a fruit or vegetable appetizer before meals. They don’t have to wait but it’s like a whole separate course that is offered when they are hungriest. I also allow fruits and vegetables any time of day but carbs are more during designated snack or meal times

Sorry that should be first rule out medical issues.

Get an evaluation. There are food clinics and professionals that will help you with this. It sounds like the issue is more behavioral than medical, but I’m not an expert so first rule out behavioral issues.

DH and I come from cultures where picky eating is strongly discouraged. Contra the prevailing advice not to make your kids eat stuff, we did. Sometimes they would fuss and some developmental stages were worse than others. But we didn’t give in to serving special meals, and when they were little we didn’t have snacks between meals and started with only vegetables. Now they are 5 & 9 and pretty much eat everything. Once in a while they say they don’t like this or that, and we talk about why eating a variety of foods is important. We also give them more choices and snacks. YMMV but I think for the behavioral stuff you’re doing the right thing. 4 is still young enough to change habits. I would cut snacks completely and only do fruit, veggies, and water between meals. Keep mealtime positive, model enthusiasm about new foods, have him help in the kitchen and offer incentives and praise for trying new things. I would ignore (like totally turn off the attention and turn away) tantrum or fussing behavior, and really praise any small tastes, offer rewards and so on to make the behavior stick.

Anonymous wrote:OP the best food advice I've ever read has come from Ellyn Satter. I would highly recommend picking up a book by her and really following it.

Everything she does is based on the division of responsibility. You decide what to serve & when, and your child decides IF and how much to eat. Her approach includes ensuring there is a plain carb on the table plus milk so that kids can manage if they don't want to try anything else.

The key is just dropping the rope, and not commenting on their food choices. That means no coaxing, as well as no praise. It needs to be neutral.

I follow her advice pretty closely, including serving a small portion of dessert with dinner and not having any negotiations at all around whether they get it. It's a small portion so they can't fill up on it. One of my sons always eats it first, and the other saves it until the end.

One of the main reasons I recommend her is that dinner has never been a battle in our house. The kids don't feel anxious about what's being served, or shamed when they won't try it. There is no arguing, arm twisting, negotiation etc.

Disclaimer: this doesn't work for 100% of children, especially if there are special needs. But from the way your describe your situation, and how lunch has already improved, it sounds like normal childhood pickiness here.

This is OP. Thank you! I have read her book and that's the approach we started with when my oldest was a toddler. We stuck with it for awhile, but what do you do when your kid almost ALWAYS eats only bread and NEVER tries the fruits or vegetables or foods outside their comfort zone? Like, never. My oldest is better and I almost never say anything about what he eats. But even he never eats the fruits or vegetables on offer at dinner and still won't touch anything with ground beef in it. Or when we have breakfast for dinner they have nothing but pancakes and don't touch the sausage, fruit, or eggs. Do at some point you say no more pancakes until you eat the rest of your food?

SLPs/OTs work on this problem with kids who are otherwise normal. Your ped could get you a referral if it's affecting growth.

OP the best food advice I've ever read has come from Ellyn Satter. I would highly recommend picking up a book by her and really following it.

Everything she does is based on the division of responsibility. You decide what to serve & when, and your child decides IF and how much to eat. Her approach includes ensuring there is a plain carb on the table plus milk so that kids can manage if they don't want to try anything else.

The key is just dropping the rope, and not commenting on their food choices. That means no coaxing, as well as no praise. It needs to be neutral.

I follow her advice pretty closely, including serving a small portion of dessert with dinner and not having any negotiations at all around whether they get it. It's a small portion so they can't fill up on it. One of my sons always eats it first, and the other saves it until the end.

One of the main reasons I recommend her is that dinner has never been a battle in our house. The kids don't feel anxious about what's being served, or shamed when they won't try it. There is no arguing, arm twisting, negotiation etc.

Disclaimer: this doesn't work for 100% of children, especially if there are special needs. But from the way your describe your situation, and how lunch has already improved, it sounds like normal childhood pickiness here.

Per Kids Eat in Color serving a meal that has some components the kids will eat is fine. There had to be enough to they can fill up on it. No coercion as that leads to a lot fo stress for everyone. You're bot supposed to praise either but i break that rule with my kids as they respond well to positive attention. My 6 year old is not picky, likes veg and will try many things. The 3 year old is picky, not yet extremely, i specifically never bought boxed things for her to not have her fixate on any one brand just in case. We always have bread and butter or cream cheese and apples at the table. And if thats all she eats its fine. If she grabs a tomato and touches/smells/licks it, great. Sometimes we get a meal she loves and she will eat everything (pizza, noodles, meatballs, breakfast foods) and most of the time i cater a little to her and serve her components. We have rice bowls a lot so she only had the rice, bagel seasoning and cheese. The rest of us have the grilled and pickled vegetables, diced chicken etc. on ours. Interestingly I get reports from preschool (which provides hot linch and snacks) that she eats foods there she never eats at home like soup and carrots. Peer pressure works on her i suppose.

Anonymous wrote:I am still a picky eater. It is not a choice and it is not fun. Coercion only makes mealtime a battle. Being forced to try new food only makes me more anxious about eating, period. The worst was when I was living with relatives who literally would not feed me anything that I could eat. And I say *could* because it’s genuinely not a choice. I was SO hungry, for days. But the thought of fondue made with uncooked chicken was literally as palatable to me as eating your liver in an oil fondue. I couldn’t do it.

There are two people in my life who have helped me expand my palette. One is my college roommate, who later became a chef. She didn’t take it personally that I wouldn’t try food she made. She knew I wasn’t choosing to be rude. What she did was cook me foods that were safe for me, and she built bridges to new foods.

For instance, I had never eaten a kidney bean or any bean for that matter. Just the idea of it exploding in my mouth as I chewed it would make me feel like retching and break out in a cold sweat. I would as soon eat my own eyeball.

But she knew I love potatoes, and she showed me the beautiful white fluffy inside of a large cooked kidney bean, presenting it like a baked potato, explaining that it was a very yummy white carbohydrate like I love in other forms, just smaller. I tasted the white stuff and loved it. And when I finally ate a whole bean, it was while imagining it as a teeny tiny baked potato. They’re now one of my favorite foods (which sucks because I’m trying to stay low carb).

If the pickiness is texture based and full of anxiety…you’re not going to win this battle. There is no point fighting.

As for “catering” to your child…isn’t your job to see that he is fed daily? Make sure that he is fed. That means serving him what he will eat. It’s your job to prepare a meal for him as much as for your spouse and other child.

Making sure kids are fed doesn’t mean you are indulging pickiness, as if it is simply brattiness. It is feeding your kid. Make sure there are safe, edible foods at every meal.

This is ridiculous. The only way to get over anything like this shrouded with anxiety is exposure therapy. You have a choice, put the new food in your mouth and chew. You might like it! You might not! But how do you know until you've done it? Do this over and over and over and you will no longer be a picky eater. You have some sort of eating disorder, nothing more.

Anonymous wrote:I am still a picky eater. It is not a choice and it is not fun. Coercion only makes mealtime a battle. Being forced to try new food only makes me more anxious about eating, period. The worst was when I was living with relatives who literally would not feed me anything that I could eat. And I say *could* because it’s genuinely not a choice. I was SO hungry, for days. But the thought of fondue made with uncooked chicken was literally as palatable to me as eating your liver in an oil fondue. I couldn’t do it.

There are two people in my life who have helped me expand my palette. One is my college roommate, who later became a chef. She didn’t take it personally that I wouldn’t try food she made. She knew I wasn’t choosing to be rude. What she did was cook me foods that were safe for me, and she built bridges to new foods.

For instance, I had never eaten a kidney bean or any bean for that matter. Just the idea of it exploding in my mouth as I chewed it would make me feel like retching and break out in a cold sweat. I would as soon eat my own eyeball.

But she knew I love potatoes, and she showed me the beautiful white fluffy inside of a large cooked kidney bean, presenting it like a baked potato, explaining that it was a very yummy white carbohydrate like I love in other forms, just smaller. I tasted the white stuff and loved it. And when I finally ate a whole bean, it was while imagining it as a teeny tiny baked potato. They’re now one of my favorite foods (which sucks because I’m trying to stay low carb).

If the pickiness is texture based and full of anxiety…you’re not going to win this battle. There is no point fighting.

As for “catering” to your child…isn’t your job to see that he is fed daily? Make sure that he is fed. That means serving him what he will eat. It’s your job to prepare a meal for him as much as for your spouse and other child.

Making sure kids are fed doesn’t mean you are indulging pickiness, as if it is simply brattiness. It is feeding your kid. Make sure there are safe, edible foods at every meal.

Well-intended advice mixed with some potentially devastating advice.

Eating issues are often very complex, can be one of the most difficult behaviors to change, and changes need to be done slowly and systematically. Intervention really depends on why they are picky, and I couldn’t tell you that without watching a few meal times with your family and collecting some data. Is it a sensory issue? A lack of exposure? Attention or escape maintained behavior? Something else?

I would find a BCBA and an OT to work jointly if you are very serious about fixing this issue. This combination IME is the best combination to rule out feeding disorders from other more environmentally maintained behavior issues.

Sometimes, I really stress sometimes here since I know nothing else about your child, picky eating can be indicative of bigger issues- especially when they appear at that age. You might also want to get a neuropsych eval scheduled, just in case. There’s sometimes a year or more wait list. Your OT and BCBA evaluations will give you an idea of whether bigger issues might be going on. If they aren’t you can always cancel it.

I am still a picky eater. It is not a choice and it is not fun. Coercion only makes mealtime a battle. Being forced to try new food only makes me more anxious about eating, period. The worst was when I was living with relatives who literally would not feed me anything that I could eat. And I say *could* because it’s genuinely not a choice. I was SO hungry, for days. But the thought of fondue made with uncooked chicken was literally as palatable to me as eating your liver in an oil fondue. I couldn’t do it.

There are two people in my life who have helped me expand my palette. One is my college roommate, who later became a chef. She didn’t take it personally that I wouldn’t try food she made. She knew I wasn’t choosing to be rude. What she did was cook me foods that were safe for me, and she built bridges to new foods.

For instance, I had never eaten a kidney bean or any bean for that matter. Just the idea of it exploding in my mouth as I chewed it would make me feel like retching and break out in a cold sweat. I would as soon eat my own eyeball.

But she knew I love potatoes, and she showed me the beautiful white fluffy inside of a large cooked kidney bean, presenting it like a baked potato, explaining that it was a very yummy white carbohydrate like I love in other forms, just smaller. I tasted the white stuff and loved it. And when I finally ate a whole bean, it was while imagining it as a teeny tiny baked potato. They’re now one of my favorite foods (which sucks because I’m trying to stay low carb).

If the pickiness is texture based and full of anxiety…you’re not going to win this battle. There is no point fighting.

As for “catering” to your child…isn’t your job to see that he is fed daily? Make sure that he is fed. That means serving him what he will eat. It’s your job to prepare a meal for him as much as for your spouse and other child.

Making sure kids are fed doesn’t mean you are indulging pickiness, as if it is simply brattiness. It is feeding your kid. Make sure there are safe, edible foods at every meal.

My 4 year DS old has become a fairly severe picky eater. It started out as regular picky eating, and we unintentionally made it much worse. He is just SO STUBBORN!! We're at the point now where he will only eat one brand of chicken nugget (barely), box mac and cheese and no other type, etc. and its getting hard to go out because he never eats anything! Even things he used to eat he won't anymore and his list of acceptable foods is getting smaller. His 6 year old brother is also pickyish but not nearly as bad. I've realized much of the problem is I've been giving him way too many snacks in between meals so he wasn't hungry enough at meal time. He mealtimes were basically the snack times. We have a new plan but need some help figuring out the details please!

I am giving less snack in between meals and offering healthier snacks. For lunch (SAHM so this is at home everyday after preschool) I've been setting a timer and he has to sit at the table for 10 minutes and I say nothing about how much or what he eats. I usually go do the dishes because otherwise he will complain to me nonstop about the food. I've made slight changes to familiar food items so it is similar to what he likes but not exact. We've made great progress and in 3 days we went from eating almost nothing to today almost clearing his plate!

Dinner I'm having a harder time because I'm cooking for the whole family not just him. We always eat the same meal together, and we used to have the policy that we don't care what or how much you eat from your plate, you just have to stay at the table for the meal. But DS4 would never, ever, ever try anything besides the few tried and true things. Even after a year of this. So we started a policy where we will all have a small dessert every night (like, a hershey kiss) and everyone has to have one bite of everything on their plate to get dessert. If they don't want to try a bite thats totally fine, but you don't get dessert. I feel like this is creating too much arguing over food which is not what we want, but at least he is trying things. However, nothing we force him to try he decides he likes and will voluntarily have later. What's a better way to do this?

Also, I've always made sure there were things present at the table that the kids would eat. For example, if I was making grilled pork chops I would make macaroni and cheese as a side knowing they would not eat the pork chops and only the macaroni and cheese. Or if I was making spaghetti I would make some plain with butter for DS6. Sometime if the main course is for sure a no-go (something spicy like curry) I will put yogurt on their plates so they can at least have that and some rice. Is this catering to their picky eating too much? How much catering is reasonable? For dinner tonight we had grilled porkchops, roasted fingerling potatoes, corn niblets, and applesauce. DS4 had applesauce only and couldn't choke down the potato or grilled pork chop at all. DS6 had one bite of pork chop, one bite of potato, applesauce, and all the corn. Was this meal too "difficult" for DS4, or is it reasonable to expect him to be able to eat this? For snack before bed they could choose one container of yogurt or a peanut butter sandwich. Both were still hungry after. I said if they were hungry they could have leftovers. No one had any and they went to bed hungry. Good or no?

And what do you do when they don't stay at the table for their meal? What is the consequence?

If you got this far, thank you. I appreciate any advice or tips!