Anonymous wrote:Just go further off the beaten track if you want the "real" European experience. Do stuff that Rick Steves says to do. You're just in a different stage of life and want a different kind of travel now.

What’s a “real European experience?” As the world shrinks and mass globalization spreads, “real” experiences will be harder to come by. Times change and unless you have a Time Machine, Paris of decades ago is just a memory. This probably applies to every city. Nothing stands still…change is constant.

Anonymous wrote:Just go further off the beaten track if you want the "real" European experience. Do stuff that Rick Steves says to do. You're just in a different stage of life and want a different kind of travel now.

AVOID DOING STUFF Rick Steves says to do. These restaurants, hotels, and tourist sites will be over run with Americans. You may as well go to Orlando.
Rick Steves has ruined many towns throughout Europe.

Anonymous wrote:I guess if you'd never been, it's still "Paris!"

But having studied in Europe years ago and then returned to Paris many times over the years, it's gone quite downhill. Sad about this. I remember how holy Notre Dame used to be - the aura was something to behold - inside you could just feel so much inside. The fire impacted but even before that, last time I was there, I was mortified by the tourist environment that overwhelmed it. I'm hesitant returning as I don't think I want to ruin my memory of it.

Is it like this everywhere in Europe? I studied in Innsbruck around the 1990, and it really was wonderful to see so much of W Europe at that time. I remember the first time I visited Mont St. Michel and then when I returned, I was just so sad. I haven't been back to W Europe for more than a decade and wonder if there's some cities that have retained their magic? I've done more E Europe since and wonder if I should take my kids there or Scandinavia.

Paris is not a theme park for tourists; it's a living city, with real residents who are not Disney cosplayers, living real lives with the same urban issues all major cities suffer from. If you're sad about no longer being able to visit a tourist wonderland, stay the F home.

Just go further off the beaten track if you want the "real" European experience. Do stuff that Rick Steves says to do. You're just in a different stage of life and want a different kind of travel now.

Anonymous wrote:So, tourists should stay away but it is ok for you to go?

Exactement.

I had fun visiting Paris in June 2021, when there were very few tourists. I try to time my travel to avoid other tourists and stay away from touristy neighborhoods and restaurants. Lots of places are still great if you go to where the actual people love to go.

European travel is not longer an elitist niche.

It’s everywhere. There have been threads on this before. Travel has been relatively inexpensive in the recent past. Not to mention the opening of international travel to the Former Soviet Union and China markets. It used to be that only Americans and Western Europe had the means and ability to travel in large numbers. Globalization has had an impact, as well. It used to be that you could travel to Paris or Rome and see food and goods that you couldn’t buy at home. Now you can have almost anything with a few clicks in your keyboard. And you’re not missing the *local atmosphere* because that is now mostly other tourists.

This may be changing a bit going forward. Some areas (e.g., Venice) seem to have figured out that they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Travel providers are also discovering that they may be better off providing a better, if more expensive and exclusive (from the standpoint of volume) experience. It remains to be seen how a global recession/Russian-Ukrainian war/European energy crises will affect this.

I agree with OP that I just don’t have the desire to fight the crowds anymore. I made sure that my kids travelled to see these places, but agree with OP that they aren’t what they used to be and I won’t be going back any time soon. I’m sure they won’t miss me, there seem to be plenty of folks who want to go, so *shrug.*

I suspect that the more we visit the same place the more it will shed its magic, irrespective of other factors.

We, the hoi polloi, now have greater access to the world. You need to get over yourself.

Anonymous wrote:Global wealth has risen creating far more middle class families able to travel. That makes cities that live on tourism crowded

This. More wealth and more tourists everywhere. And social media made secret places less secret.

So, tourists should stay away but it is ok for you to go?

Global wealth has risen creating far more middle class families able to travel. That makes cities that live on tourism crowded

It’s not just Paris, it’s everywhere. Thank social media.

I guess if you'd never been, it's still "Paris!"

But having studied in Europe years ago and then returned to Paris many times over the years, it's gone quite downhill. Sad about this. I remember how holy Notre Dame used to be - the aura was something to behold - inside you could just feel so much inside. The fire impacted but even before that, last time I was there, I was mortified by the tourist environment that overwhelmed it. I'm hesitant returning as I don't think I want to ruin my memory of it.

Is it like this everywhere in Europe? I studied in Innsbruck around the 1990, and it really was wonderful to see so much of W Europe at that time. I remember the first time I visited Mont St. Michel and then when I returned, I was just so sad. I haven't been back to W Europe for more than a decade and wonder if there's some cities that have retained their magic? I've done more E Europe since and wonder if I should take my kids there or Scandinavia.