Anonymous wrote:OP here. I feel like I'm having a crisis. I'm not sure if it's because I'm in a bad state of depression and I've taken a darker, negative perspective. Or if I am having a moment of clarity in the mental fog I have been living in all my life. But it suddenly appears as though that for my mom, the only purpose of my existence is to serve her - with time, attention, love, money, care, help and to not have any problems of my own that will distract from this purpose. She literally knows nothing about me or my life. She knows nothing about my children. She doesn't know how old they are or what grade they are in.

I've been telling myself, as much as she drives me crazy sometimes, my mom is a good person, and she loves me very much, and she's doing her best with what she knows, she sacrificed so much for me. In my sibling's eyes, my mom can do no wrong, so I often think there's something wrong with me when I get frustrated with her - that I'm a bad person for not loving and accepting my mom the way I should. In the past, she has obsessively worried about me - it was diabolical. She said it was because she cared. I told her to stop caring. She obliged. The frantic phone calls stopped.

She's estranged with her brothers and sisters. She thinks they're all selfish and they are all takers. The only one she has a relationship is with a person who has mental health issues and their relationship is very dysfunctional. Her sisters hold resentment from past hurts from long ago. She has many friends though, but she often says they all exhaust her because they just go on and on about their own problems and don't seem to care about hers.

Therapy is great for this, OP, but it sounds like a moment of clarity to me.

OP here. I feel like I'm having a crisis. I'm not sure if it's because I'm in a bad state of depression and I've taken a darker, negative perspective. Or if I am having a moment of clarity in the mental fog I have been living in all my life. But it suddenly appears as though that for my mom, the only purpose of my existence is to serve her - with time, attention, love, money, care, help and to not have any problems of my own that will distract from this purpose. She literally knows nothing about me or my life. She knows nothing about my children. She doesn't know how old they are or what grade they are in.

I've been telling myself, as much as she drives me crazy sometimes, my mom is a good person, and she loves me very much, and she's doing her best with what she knows, she sacrificed so much for me. In my sibling's eyes, my mom can do no wrong, so I often think there's something wrong with me when I get frustrated with her - that I'm a bad person for not loving and accepting my mom the way I should. In the past, she has obsessively worried about me - it was diabolical. She said it was because she cared. I told her to stop caring. She obliged. The frantic phone calls stopped.

She's estranged with her brothers and sisters. She thinks they're all selfish and they are all takers. The only one she has a relationship is with a person who has mental health issues and their relationship is very dysfunctional. Her sisters hold resentment from past hurts from long ago. She has many friends though, but she often says they all exhaust her because they just go on and on about their own problems and don't seem to care about hers.

It’s time to take a big step back. I would not suggest a person like your mom babysit anyones children, so please don’t leave anyone alone in her care.

She’s just not that into your kids. Don’t try to facilitate a relationship- it won’t go well.

You are not going to get what you need from her. Therapy for you. She could probably use some therapy herself.

Focus on your kids. Give them what they need.

Anonymous wrote:Give some thought about why you want your kids around someone who seems toxic. It sounds like she treats you poorly and is critical of you and your kids, why do you want your kids around her?

Keep in mind that you cannot create relationships for other people. If your mother isn't actively engaging the kids or trying to form a relationship and your kids aren't responding to her, then you can't magically make a relationship happen. You can provide the environment, suggest activities, arrange dates, but you can't force anyone to engage.

I don't think she is toxic. I think she is damaged and emotionally stunted. She loves me in her own way - through meals, through cleaning. She will literally do those things to the point of making herself ill, in the name of love.

Give some thought about why you want your kids around someone who seems toxic. It sounds like she treats you poorly and is critical of you and your kids, why do you want your kids around her?

Keep in mind that you cannot create relationships for other people. If your mother isn't actively engaging the kids or trying to form a relationship and your kids aren't responding to her, then you can't magically make a relationship happen. You can provide the environment, suggest activities, arrange dates, but you can't force anyone to engage.

Anonymous wrote:Your mother has deep issues. You DO need to teach your children to look people in the eye, and respond when they are spoken to. But do not push them to hug someone they don't feel warmly towards or punish them for not hugging.

If your mother comes over, I'd suggest she and one of your kids go bake something you've put out. Or that your kid read her a poem they've written for school or something like that. Clearly, they need help and a project, a purpose would help.

I'm realizing that these normal types of things you do with a grandchild.... She cannot do those things. She will be annoyed or perplexed at the suggestion.

She sulks when I bring her along to outings with our kids like a children's museum. She looks around and says there's not a lot of other older people like her. She gets faint and nearly passes out, from not eating enough breakfast, and requires me to sit with her for a couple of hours.

Anonymous wrote:OP here and another thing I suggested to my mom was to maybe spend time with another grandchild in our family who was more extroverted, clingy, and chatty so that she can get what she needs, since her personality is more what she is looking for in a grandchild. I suggested she offer to babysit for her parents. Again - she said this never occurred to her.

She thought they didn't want a babysitter because they like having their kid around all the time and that they ALWAYS bring her everywhere! And I explained that they bring her everywhere because they don't have a babysitter or cannot afford one and can't leave a young child at home by herself. And she said she never realized that, and thought the whole time they only brought her everywhere with them was because they liked to have her with them everywhere.

Oh wow. Rereading this, I just realized that's what my mom assumed about ME. She probably really wants to just spend time with just me so that I can listen to her problems and pay attention to her and take care of her. And she's annoyed I always bring the kids around who just depress her and make her feel worse, and take away my attention from her. And she assumed I just keep bringing them around because I want to always have them with me.

I think I just made all these assumptions about what she wanted. I don't even know anymore....

Your mother has deep issues. You DO need to teach your children to look people in the eye, and respond when they are spoken to. But do not push them to hug someone they don't feel warmly towards or punish them for not hugging.

If your mother comes over, I'd suggest she and one of your kids go bake something you've put out. Or that your kid read her a poem they've written for school or something like that. Clearly, they need help and a project, a purpose would help.

OP here and another thing I suggested to my mom was to maybe spend time with another grandchild in our family who was more extroverted, clingy, and chatty so that she can get what she needs, since her personality is more what she is looking for in a grandchild. I suggested she offer to babysit for her parents. Again - she said this never occurred to her.

She thought they didn't want a babysitter because they like having their kid around all the time and that they ALWAYS bring her everywhere! And I explained that they bring her everywhere because they don't have a babysitter or cannot afford one and can't leave a young child at home by herself. And she said she never realized that, and thought the whole time they only brought her everywhere with them was because they liked to have her with them everywhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told her I'm sorry my kids didn't turn out right, and that I screwed them up into something that doesn't make her depression go away, and makes it worse.

Please don't buy into this. Your kids sound fine. Not all kids are extroverted and chatty, and not all kids want hugs, especially from people who are critical of them, like your mother.

If my mom was blaming me for not teaching my kids right, or my kids for not being friendly enough to her, I'd make it clear that I was not going to entertain that sort of criticism, and that if she continues, I would leave. Every time. Your mom may or may not be able to change her mindset and behavior to become an involved grandmother, but it's crystal clear to me that the onus is on her. Not you. And especially not your kids!

The thing is, I think she wants to change, but I don't think she knows how. Or maybe that's just me projecting again. Like, I suggested that maybe she take the kids on one of her forest walks, because they like doing that. And she said that it never occurred to her. I feel like she has no idea how to just spend time with a child. She only knows how to cook for them, divert them from danger, correct them, or punish them.

Anonymous wrote:I told her I'm sorry my kids didn't turn out right, and that I screwed them up into something that doesn't make her depression go away, and makes it worse.

Please don't buy into this. Your kids sound fine. Not all kids are extroverted and chatty, and not all kids want hugs, especially from people who are critical of them, like your mother.

If my mom was blaming me for not teaching my kids right, or my kids for not being friendly enough to her, I'd make it clear that I was not going to entertain that sort of criticism, and that if she continues, I would leave. Every time. Your mom may or may not be able to change her mindset and behavior to become an involved grandmother, but it's crystal clear to me that the onus is on her. Not you. And especially not your kids!

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to try to be kind but it might sound really direct:

You are projecting a lot on to your mother- saying she is a good mother and wants a relationship and everything else. It is easy to say these things but hard to do them. She is telling you one thing through her words and another through her actions. It doesn’t matter how much care she puts into her cooking- that’s not the same as talking and interacting with her grandchildren. I would argue with you that your mom IS self-centered. Expecting a relationship to evolve in the way she wants while totally dictating the kind of effort she’ll put into the relationship is self-centered and inflexible.

My mother is a white American with zero cultural barriers to interaction with my children, and she is exactly like your mother, down to the words and excuses she uses. She is anxious, depressed, needy, and self-centered, too. My ILs are hands-on, involved, loving grandparents just like the grandparents you describe. It is hard and lonely, but you will become bitter and exhausted if you keep trying to create a relationship and a mother that don’t actually exist. Pour energy into the people who show up and show their love, and give yourself some time to mourn the mom you have versus the one you wish you had.

You make a good point. And I needed to hear it. And on deeper thought, what you say is true. Everything she has complained about is not about wanting a relationship. It’s about how they made her feel or not feel. She has no desire to get to know them or relate with them. Only to try to force me to force them to give her what she desperately needs.

I’m going to try to be kind but it might sound really direct:

You are projecting a lot on to your mother- saying she is a good mother and wants a relationship and everything else. It is easy to say these things but hard to do them. She is telling you one thing through her words and another through her actions. It doesn’t matter how much care she puts into her cooking- that’s not the same as talking and interacting with her grandchildren. I would argue with you that your mom IS self-centered. Expecting a relationship to evolve in the way she wants while totally dictating the kind of effort she’ll put into the relationship is self-centered and inflexible.

My mother is a white American with zero cultural barriers to interaction with my children, and she is exactly like your mother, down to the words and excuses she uses. She is anxious, depressed, needy, and self-centered, too. My ILs are hands-on, involved, loving grandparents just like the grandparents you describe. It is hard and lonely, but you will become bitter and exhausted if you keep trying to create a relationship and a mother that don’t actually exist. Pour energy into the people who show up and show their love, and give yourself some time to mourn the mom you have versus the one you wish you had.

You don’t. Your mom needs to grow up.

I've always struggled with the relationship with my mom. She's a vortex of anxiety and depression, spurred on by a traumatic childhood, and life experiences. Beyond our relationship, I have always wanted a relationship between my children and her, and she desperately wants one too.

But it is so, so hard. Where do I start. She knows nothing about them. She doesn't talk to them - citing a language barrier, and yet she has english speaking friends that she speaks just fine with. She always uses me as her translator, so she avoids speaking directly to them. She also says she avoids it because sometimes they don't answer, and that makes her feel like they don't like her.
She also blames their personalities and how I raised them. She said I should teach them to be warm and loving to her and to give her hugs and be nice to her and look her in the eye. But they are naturally shy and reserved around most people, but especially her because they don't really have a relationship. She tells me to punish them for not being warm to her or making conversation with her.

She is crying that I didn't teach them right, and they are the way they are because of how I raised them, and that there is something wrong with them, because most kids are loving and follow adults around and are chatty. And that it seems like they dislike her or think she's ugly or gross and that's why they don't come over and hug her.

I told her I'm sorry my kids didn't turn out right, and that I screwed them up into something that doesn't make her depression go away, and makes it worse. But that she's an adult and she has some responsibility for the relationship too, and that it's not their job to fix her depression. She says, as their mother, I have influence over how they act around her. She also says it upsets her to see me always tend to my kids and ask them what they want, and I do not do the same for her. That no one asks her what she wants. The truth is I am always tending to her. I am the one who is always talking to her when we are in a group and she feels excluded and she is sulking.

And she wonders why they aren't the same way with my in-laws who constantly play with them, take them for the weekend, take them to the zoo or other fun places. She thinks my kids like them more than her.

She is not naturally selfish or self-centered. She shows love through food. She spends literally hours shopping for and preparing meals. She is limited in how she is able to express love though in other ways.

I just want a way forward. I feel sad for her. She says interacting with my kids makes her depressed because she feels rejected by them. How do I fix this??