Anonymous
09/23/2022 08:57
Subject: Re:Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.
But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.
We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.
And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?
I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 08:54
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Anonymous wrote:Hear me out.
By and large, non-managerial federal employees have it way easier than their private counterparts. Less requirements, more protections. Private sector non-managers work much harder to earn their dues.
But federal managers have it way, way harder. All around I see federal managers working their tails off. They pick up work from people underneath them when it doesn't get done. They stay late because you can't make the people under you stay late to finish projects. They have busy work from above and grunt work from below. Have issues with your employees? Hopefully you have 10 hours a week (for months!) to deal with it, document it and get that person on a PIP because that process is like a 2nd job. Our SES managers routinely work 60+ hour weeks and still can't get all the work done. Whereas my private sector counterparts in management really have less responsibilities. They can easily delegate tasks, can easily fire people, can easily move people on projects to where they need to go, and they're supported by senior management. And if they are working 60 hour weeks, they're paid like they are.
Anyone else see this? I think this is why all feds dream of being non supervisory 15s.
I've supervised in both fed and non-fed. I totally agree.
As a fed, many of the traditional managerial tools are off the table. You have no real leverage related to the continued employment of your subordinates. You don't have any real incentives to offer. Team building is far harder. And you have very little flexibility when it comes to assigned job duties. And if your overall mission evolves and requires a new team composition/skills? Too bad - you're stuck with the same people.
To be a "successful" manager as a fed, you need to really know the system and how to use it - a skill set that has little relevance to mission leadership, change management, team building, and the various other traditional managerial skills. Which is why you very rarely get a good, effective manager/leader in the fed environment.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 08:49
Subject: Re:Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.
But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.
We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.
And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?
But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.
We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.
And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?
Anonymous
09/23/2022 08:46
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand government employees. I always hear it’s so hard to get employed by the government, but 99% of the time I interact with employees at the DMV or Medicaid or customer service lines I’m struck by how slow they are. Who is hiring these people?
Your DMV and Medicaid customer service are not run by the federal government, which is the topic of this thread. They are run by your state government. In the case of Medicaid, the call center you’re reaching is probably staffed by employees of a private contractor.
Federal government, state government. Same issues. This is still the government.
They’re different employers, so no. It’s not the same government.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 07:58
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Yeah, the service I get from AT&T and my private health insurer is so personalized. I call them right up and get what I want within 5 minutes.
/s
/s
Anonymous
09/22/2022 21:33
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand government employees. I always hear it’s so hard to get employed by the government, but 99% of the time I interact with employees at the DMV or Medicaid or customer service lines I’m struck by how slow they are. Who is hiring these people?
Your DMV and Medicaid customer service are not run by the federal government, which is the topic of this thread. They are run by your state government. In the case of Medicaid, the call center you’re reaching is probably staffed by employees of a private contractor.
Federal government, state government. Same issues. This is still the government.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 17:34
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Yes that is why when I was a GS 14 and got a private sector offer and my fed boss tried to get my to stay by saying I could be a division director someday, I said no thanks and left. I don't have job security but I love what I do and I now make enough that I save (after taxes, non retirement) more than I made as a GS-14.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 16:13
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand government employees. I always hear it’s so hard to get employed by the government, but 99% of the time I interact with employees at the DMV or Medicaid or customer service lines I’m struck by how slow they are. Who is hiring these people?
Your DMV and Medicaid customer service are not run by the federal government, which is the topic of this thread. They are run by your state government. In the case of Medicaid, the call center you’re reaching is probably staffed by employees of a private contractor.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 16:00
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
I don’t understand government employees. I always hear it’s so hard to get employed by the government, but 99% of the time I interact with employees at the DMV or Medicaid or customer service lines I’m struck by how slow they are. Who is hiring these people?
Anonymous
09/22/2022 11:28
Subject: Re:Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
I think the other issue is hiring, which is a higger issue than unproductive employees IMO. It takes a year or more to fill a lot of vacancies in my agency. I left my last job in March 2021 and it's still open. Guess who has to keep up with that vacant position's work? We're also between a rock and a hard place because we don't have enough base (reliable) funding to properly staff our office, but we can't use sequences of project funding for some of the needs because "if there is an ongoing need across multiple projects, that should be a permanent position." It's comical.
Sigh. Back to work.
Sigh. Back to work.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 10:49
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
If you don't take the supervisory role, one of those trash employees may supervise you and make your life miserable.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 10:26
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
So don't take the job?
Anonymous
09/22/2022 10:20
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
I do think there's some truth to what OP posted.
Some private sector managers no doubt have it hard, but by and large fed managers often have their hands tied when it comes to a lot of things.
Some private sector managers no doubt have it hard, but by and large fed managers often have their hands tied when it comes to a lot of things.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 09:56
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
You're right. Managing trash people is a lot harder when there's no easy path to rid yourself of them.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 09:51
Subject: Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest
Hear me out.
By and large, non-managerial federal employees have it way easier than their private counterparts. Less requirements, more protections. Private sector non-managers work much harder to earn their dues.
But federal managers have it way, way harder. All around I see federal managers working their tails off. They pick up work from people underneath them when it doesn't get done. They stay late because you can't make the people under you stay late to finish projects. They have busy work from above and grunt work from below. Have issues with your employees? Hopefully you have 10 hours a week (for months!) to deal with it, document it and get that person on a PIP because that process is like a 2nd job. Our SES managers routinely work 60+ hour weeks and still can't get all the work done. Whereas my private sector counterparts in management really have less responsibilities. They can easily delegate tasks, can easily fire people, can easily move people on projects to where they need to go, and they're supported by senior management. And if they are working 60 hour weeks, they're paid like they are.
Anyone else see this? I think this is why all feds dream of being non supervisory 15s.
By and large, non-managerial federal employees have it way easier than their private counterparts. Less requirements, more protections. Private sector non-managers work much harder to earn their dues.
But federal managers have it way, way harder. All around I see federal managers working their tails off. They pick up work from people underneath them when it doesn't get done. They stay late because you can't make the people under you stay late to finish projects. They have busy work from above and grunt work from below. Have issues with your employees? Hopefully you have 10 hours a week (for months!) to deal with it, document it and get that person on a PIP because that process is like a 2nd job. Our SES managers routinely work 60+ hour weeks and still can't get all the work done. Whereas my private sector counterparts in management really have less responsibilities. They can easily delegate tasks, can easily fire people, can easily move people on projects to where they need to go, and they're supported by senior management. And if they are working 60 hour weeks, they're paid like they are.
Anyone else see this? I think this is why all feds dream of being non supervisory 15s.