Anonymous wrote:It's patent that applications without test scores signify poor test scores, whether due to lack of aptitude, lack of preparation, poor preparatory education, or something else. Consequently, there's little practical difference between submitting poor scores versus no scores.

^ this implies that submitting a bad SAT score is the same as not submitting - don’t think that’s the case. I read somewhere that an AO said (sorry don’t know from where) - that you can’t unsee a bad score

Most schools will not tell you whether to submit or not. Some will. If you ask Virginia Tech directly in an information session they will tell you what range helps for the school you are applying to. (Business, engineering, etc).

In your son's situation, I think it is a mistake to apply TO. Will he lose every school because of that? No. But he could lose the one he really wants.

It's patent that applications without test scores signify poor test scores, whether due to lack of aptitude, lack of preparation, poor preparatory education, or something else. Consequently, there's little practical difference between submitting poor scores versus no scores.

The weight given to either scenario by any given school is difficult to know, since test scores are not the only factor in admissions decisions.

Our HS (private) says it is truly test optional.

Advice from both school and private counselor last year was only send in scores to TO schools when it is an advantage to your application. I went to one college admission session where they more or less said it’s not helping you to send in a score unless it’s at least at their average admitted student range (which was something like 1480-1530 SAT). I also had another mom separately echo something similar where she said the kids sending in test scores were only the ones that did really well (1500’s) so sending in what is still a good score (mid to high 1400’s) but not at least in 50% range worked against their child at certain schools because they were being compared against the pool of people with similar GPA but that had sent in those higher test scores.

Bottom line though, it really needs to be a school by school decision. There could be some schools that are truly not test optional, sort of like when optional essays aren’t optional, and even for the ones that really are TO, you have to see where your child’s score falls within the average ACT/SAT for admission to the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Other schools will wonder why you're not submitting tests. For these, you'd better submit anything that is better than the published mid-range of scores (or in the upper range of that interval). If you don't, they will assume you tested poorly.

The problem with this is that kids are now scared to submit anything below the 50th percentile. And if this keeps happening, the number of kids who submit will go down and the test scores will go up. And then you left with (mostly likely) wealthy, well prepped kids submitting scores. Colleges must realize that and take that into account.

PP you replied to. Yes, which is why I'm expecting at some point that more colleges return to test-mandatory. If only some people submit tests, then nothing makes sense.

but it’s kinda bs of the colleges are wink wink still expecting rich kids to send scores - at least be upfront about it if that’s the case - it’s the reality that rich kids can prep and turn an 1130 into a 1430 by spending money that poor kids don’t - sooo call it what it is and say TO for < 50th percentile income zip codes or something like that. Exclude the prep lax bro!

Anonymous wrote:

Other schools will wonder why you're not submitting tests. For these, you'd better submit anything that is better than the published mid-range of scores (or in the upper range of that interval). If you don't, they will assume you tested poorly.

The problem with this is that kids are now scared to submit anything below the 50th percentile. And if this keeps happening, the number of kids who submit will go down and the test scores will go up. And then you left with (mostly likely) wealthy, well prepped kids submitting scores. Colleges must realize that and take that into account.

I posted this on another thread:

While it's true that some schools took more kids who submitted scores, you cannot infer from that statistic that the school preferred scores. It is equally possible (even likely) that there were a higher percentage of kids who went test option and presented a less favorable academic records and THAT was the factor which resulted in their [higher rate of] rejection rather than the lack of an ACT/SAT score.

The number of test optional admits is too high at many schools for the only answer to be that an unhooked kids must submit a score. Instead, the answer is closer to the truth: you do not have to submit the score and they will not hold it against you, but the remainder of your application must make up for the lack of a submitted score.

Some schools really do think it's optional and will not hesitate to say so when you tour and ask an admissions officer.

Meaning: you will be judged on what you present in your application. If it's very strong, you're in.

For these schools, it's one less data point among all the other data points you're submitting. It doesn't make it any less or more difficult for admission.

Other schools will wonder why you're not submitting tests. For these, you'd better submit anything that is better than the published mid-range of scores (or in the upper range of that interval). If you don't, they will assume you tested poorly.

BTW: Colleges know EXACTLY what kind of high school your kid goes to. They are sent profiles by each school, and they can ascertain socio-economic demographics easily.

Further tot he above, our guidance counselors are not recommending against TO.

No it’s not. Believe the schools and not some random DCUM posters.

We are in the Langley pyramid and my DD is applying TO.

not trying to be provocative, just really trying to discern if my ds will be disadvantaged by applying TO - he’s non-diversity from affluent zip code. Believe at
least part of TO movement is to “even the playing field” for those who don’t have access to test prep - not looking for opinions, but legit guidance fro
someone who’s actually gotten feedback from AO that they consider TO directly against socioeconomic background. And the prep school lax bro better be sending in scores ‘cause AO will expect it - the guidance on this crap is really lacking, not accidentally i’m sure
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