Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, yes and no.

There are non-supervisory 15 positions throughout the government.

However, removing supervisory duties from a supervisory position is a demotion. You can't do it without a proposal to demote based on performance or conduct. If this individual is truly unable to supervise, put him/her on a PIP, then propose demotion. But in my experience, this is a terrible course of action that never works out.

No it isn't. Reassignment to a new position without a change in grade or pay is not an adverse action and you can absolutely do it without a proposal of any kind. There is no such procedural requirement.


(It is a change in working conditions that could be one element of a EEO or PPP claim if there are other factors as well, but that is different.)

Not where I work. They just shove them in some random role. It is usually quickly done. Often to solve a problem. If there is no problem and they just want to keep the person who doesn’t like being a supervisor and will otherwise leave, they seem to open a spot through HR, but if someone is effectively demoted due to either a reorganization or a complaint, they just do it.

Also I was agreeing with the post I responded to and now I see that was not clear. 😆

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, yes and no.

There are non-supervisory 15 positions throughout the government.

However, removing supervisory duties from a supervisory position is a demotion. You can't do it without a proposal to demote based on performance or conduct. If this individual is truly unable to supervise, put him/her on a PIP, then propose demotion. But in my experience, this is a terrible course of action that never works out.

No it isn't. Reassignment to a new position without a change in grade or pay is not an adverse action and you can absolutely do it without a proposal of any kind. There is no such procedural requirement.


(It is a change in working conditions that could be one element of a EEO or PPP claim if there are other factors as well, but that is different.)

Not where I work. They just shove them in some random role. It is usually quickly done. Often to solve a problem. If there is no problem and they just want to keep the person who doesn’t like being a supervisor and will otherwise leave, they seem to open a spot through HR, but if someone is effectively demoted due to either a reorganization or a complaint, they just do it.

That's not happening. They are not firing this supervisor. They are plenty of incapable supervisors in the federal government.

Hr can do a reassignment to GS-15 non supervisory.

Anonymous wrote:OP, yes and no.

There are non-supervisory 15 positions throughout the government.

However, removing supervisory duties from a supervisory position is a demotion. You can't do it without a proposal to demote based on performance or conduct. If this individual is truly unable to supervise, put him/her on a PIP, then propose demotion. But in my experience, this is a terrible course of action that never works out.

No it isn't. Reassignment to a new position without a change in grade or pay is not an adverse action and you can absolutely do it without a proposal of any kind. There is no such procedural requirement.


(It is a change in working conditions that could be one element of a EEO or PPP claim if there are other factors as well, but that is different.)

OP, yes and no.

There are non-supervisory 15 positions throughout the government.

However, removing supervisory duties from a supervisory position is a demotion. You can't do it without a proposal to demote based on performance or conduct. If this individual is truly unable to supervise, put him/her on a PIP, then propose demotion. But in my experience, this is a terrible course of action that never works out.

I posted this and am not a troll.

Anonymous wrote:Come on y'all. This is a troll post on the other thread.

For which other thread?

Come on y'all. This is a troll post on the other thread.

Yes, many expert level scientists and engineers who only do STEM and don't manage. You have to be world class and a 'leader' in the field.

They do it all the time. Usually, they shove them under an Executive and call them a Special Assistant or something.

I’ve seen people have their positions re-classified after some kind of administrative audit. It probably depends on the position and organization whether that’s an option.

I have seen in one DoD agency where an abusive supervisory GS-15 was re-assigned to a non-supervisory policy role. She then rode out her last couple of years until she could retire at 57. As in the situation you describe, she was seen as a high performer for work product, and frankly she did a lot of the work some of her peers didn't want to do. So they just let her sit in an office by herself doing policy work until she put in her paperwork.

I always had mixed feelings about that person. She could be incredibly charming, and she was so good at the work product, it made you feel like you were accomplishing great things when working with her. But then she would turn on people, humiliate people in meetings, scream at the top of her lungs, harangue people she felt were not performing to her standards...you never knew which version of her was going to show up in the morning.

Depends on the component. Some agencies have non-supervisory GS-15s (especially DOJ), others don't.

They wouldn't fire this supervisor because their work is good. Their supervisory skills are terrible and it's been documented in a unique situation (they refuse to fire an employee). What type of repercussions can be done to this supervisor? Thanks.