Anonymous wrote:I'm pro birth. I think there needs to be a system like in Israel, where you need permission from 3 doctors to have an abortion.

This is no longer the case in Israel: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/28/israel-abortion-law-changes-roe/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Judaism does not see women as inherently sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

There are patriarchal elements to Judaism though, yes? Not perfectly egalitarian.

Orthodox Judaism, yes. Non-Orthodox Judaism — no.

I'm pro birth. I think there needs to be a system like in Israel, where you need permission from 3 doctors to have an abortion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Why are you singling out Western religions? Non-Western religions aren’t exactly egalitarian.

Because we are in the west? And the vast majority of religion practiced in the west are…western?

Not anymore. United States isn't majority Christian.

Easy enough to tell . There are way more mosques than churches opening every year

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Why are you singling out Western religions? Non-Western religions aren’t exactly egalitarian.

Because we are in the west? And the vast majority of religion practiced in the west are…western?

OP wasn’t just asking about the West. I think you’re just narrow-minded and trying to backtrack now.

If that’s what you take away from my post, okay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Judaism does not see women as inherently sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

There are patriarchal elements to Judaism though, yes? Not perfectly egalitarian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Why are you singling out Western religions? Non-Western religions aren’t exactly egalitarian.

Because we are in the west? And the vast majority of religion practiced in the west are…western?

OP wasn’t just asking about the West. I think you’re just narrow-minded and trying to backtrack now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Why are you singling out Western religions? Non-Western religions aren’t exactly egalitarian.

Because we are in the west? And the vast majority of religion practiced in the west are…western?

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Judaism does not see women as inherently sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Anonymous wrote:Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

Why are you singling out Western religions? Non-Western religions aren’t exactly egalitarian.

Western religions all have a history of being patriarchal and othering women, to varying extents. It is unsurprising that adherents to these religions see women as innately sinful and their bodies/sexuality/fertility as something to be controlled and managed.

Folk religions and those that are more matriarchal have tended to have a softer view of women in general, including womens fertility.

The fact is that as long as there have been humans, there have been means derived to terminate and control pregnancies. Folk remedies were common. The genesis of the abortion struggle in the US began when the AMA (mostly men) took issue with the fact that women sought and got abortions outside of the medical establishment. This is an establishment that continues to “other” women, discount our pain and experiences, and otherwise seeks to disempower people when it comes to their own health and healing.

I think it's in the Bible that abortion is legal up to "quickening" -- when you can feel the baby move. Pretty sure.

Try again, in English this time.

No one can comment on this? Crickets?

I really hope this doesn’t get erased. It’s not that controversial that it should be pulled, Jeff.

But mainly I was reading this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1073797.page

And because the main genesis of this issue and the one with the recent 10 year old girl who was almost forced to have that rape baby are religious in origin. I mean the entire pro life movement is essentially Christian in origin. That’s indisputable. How do you feel about these stories in states that have banned or severely curtailed abortion.

This child had no chance of living in this recent case in Louisiana. No chance. And the mother is forced to carry to term which causes health risks for her. How, as someone very religious, that’s who I am sort of seeking input from, how do you square the rise in stories like this with your religion if it tells you abortion is never allowed?

Does it bother you or is it just sort of God’s will or fate? I would like to learn how you can both be okay and not okay with this. I don’t want to enflame tensions, but merely that we are seeing a rise in these types of stories.