Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 17:39     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.


But AA indisputably works for a huge number of people. THEY certainly aren’t being hampered by any “problematic aspects.” Why do you feel compelled to deride it based on your own selected statistics that other statistics disagree with? Are you in recovery? If not (indeed, even if you are) where do you get off trying to take life saving options off the table for other people.

And as for “[a] lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc.,” none of that is going to improve while the person is still drinking.


It only works for a huge number of people because a 10x huger number of people try it. Statistically fewer people who join AA actually quit drinking than people who just decide to give up drinking cold turkey. Your logic is like saying "well praying works to cure cancer for a huge number of people!, what's wrong with praying instead of going to a doctor?!" Just because some number of people happened to not die of cancer and also prayed doesn't mean most people aren't better off going to a doctor. Nobody is saying AA has never worked for anyone, but AA works worse than other methods so why encourage people to use the worse method?


Your assertion that AA is inferior to cold turkey is fallacious. You need to read the article linked above. AA is not the “worse method;” it is superior to other approaches. And the “worst method” is remaining hopeless and drinking oneself to death without ever trying anything, sometimes because a person derided the very approach that might have saved the person.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 17:13     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.


But AA indisputably works for a huge number of people. THEY certainly aren’t being hampered by any “problematic aspects.” Why do you feel compelled to deride it based on your own selected statistics that other statistics disagree with? Are you in recovery? If not (indeed, even if you are) where do you get off trying to take life saving options off the table for other people.

And as for “[a] lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc.,” none of that is going to improve while the person is still drinking.


It only works for a huge number of people because a 10x huger number of people try it. Statistically fewer people who join AA actually quit drinking than people who just decide to give up drinking cold turkey. Your logic is like saying "well praying works to cure cancer for a huge number of people!, what's wrong with praying instead of going to a doctor?!" Just because some number of people happened to not die of cancer and also prayed doesn't mean most people aren't better off going to a doctor. Nobody is saying AA has never worked for anyone, but AA works worse than other methods so why encourage people to use the worse method?
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 16:44     Subject: AA Chips
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD012880.pub2/full

Recent study supporting AA effectiveness.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 16:29     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Would AA give a 24 hour chip to someone at their first meeting who reports having been sober for a couple of months? Is the 24 hour chip a first meeting thing?

I know better than to trust anything DH says with regard to alcohol or recovery so am looking for some other source for this information.


This isn’t determined by a committee or something. They say “if you have one day of sobriety, or the desire to be sober today, come up and get a 24 hour chip.”

You have problems here that are not about the chip.


Op here and I agree that there are problems, including total lack of trust. We are working on it.

What I’m wondering is, if he went to an AA meeting and said “I’ve been sober for 70 days” it seems odd for them to say “welcome! Here’s your 24 hour sobriety chip!” Or coin or whatever it is.

But I think I hear what you’re saying that it’s a lot less formal than that. Thanks.



OP, it’s not your job to “catch” him. You’re letting his alcohol problem run your life. You didn’t cause it, you can’t change it, you can’t cure it. You have to make your choices based on what you need and can tolerate, not on trying to fix him. Some people benefit from Al Anon, the fellowship for people with alcoholic loved ones.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 16:25     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.


AA has no basis in science. It predates any serious study of substance abuse or alcoholism and relies heavily on religion


So what? A few weeks ago depression was caused by low serotonin. Then we found out that the data was faked. Tens of thousands of happy AA people walking around sober and free right now. It’s like bumblebees. Scientifically they can’t fly. But they don’t know that.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 16:22     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.


But AA indisputably works for a huge number of people. THEY certainly aren’t being hampered by any “problematic aspects.” Why do you feel compelled to deride it based on your own selected statistics that other statistics disagree with? Are you in recovery? If not (indeed, even if you are) where do you get off trying to take life saving options off the table for other people.

And as for “[a] lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc.,” none of that is going to improve while the person is still drinking.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 15:04     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Would AA give a 24 hour chip to someone at their first meeting who reports having been sober for a couple of months? Is the 24 hour chip a first meeting thing?

I know better than to trust anything DH says with regard to alcohol or recovery so am looking for some other source for this information.


This isn’t determined by a committee or something. They say “if you have one day of sobriety, or the desire to be sober today, come up and get a 24 hour chip.”

You have problems here that are not about the chip.


Op here and I agree that there are problems, including total lack of trust. We are working on it.

What I’m wondering is, if he went to an AA meeting and said “I’ve been sober for 70 days” it seems odd for them to say “welcome! Here’s your 24 hour sobriety chip!” Or coin or whatever it is.

But I think I hear what you’re saying that it’s a lot less formal than that. Thanks.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 15:04     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.


AA has no basis in science. It predates any serious study of substance abuse or alcoholism and relies heavily on religion
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 14:59     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:Would AA give a 24 hour chip to someone at their first meeting who reports having been sober for a couple of months? Is the 24 hour chip a first meeting thing?

I know better than to trust anything DH says with regard to alcohol or recovery so am looking for some other source for this information.


This isn’t determined by a committee or something. They say “if you have one day of sobriety, or the desire to be sober today, come up and get a 24 hour chip.”

You have problems here that are not about the chip.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 13:54     Subject: Re:AA Chips
I was wondering what’s an African American chip...

Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 13:53     Subject: Re:AA Chips
You should be able to tell if he's sober or not, OP. I am a sober alcoholic. I'll always be an alcoholic. I choose to be sober. You have to find it within yourself to get sober, and you can't pretend to be. It is what it is.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 13:45     Subject: AA Chips
I epoxied my first coin in the bottom of my favorite rocks glass when I realized I didn’t (and never, in hindsight) needed them in the first place.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 12:00     Subject: AA Chips
Anonymous wrote:A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.


Thanks. OP here. He’s done SMART, cold turkey, an IOP, counseling, various antidepressants and medication for ADHD….

AA is not the first rodeo, so to speak. It’s the latest, and with a more promising start than the others, but the chip threw me. Last relapse was in June, to my knowledge, and I’m getting pretty good and spotting them.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 11:55     Subject: AA Chips
A 24 hour chip is given to anyone who commits to be sober. They don’t have to be sober, but they have to commit to becoming sober.

That said, AA has MANY problematic aspects and has a higher failure rate than individuals quitting cold turkey. There are alternatives, such as the SMART program. A lot of addiction/alcoholism is also self-medicating for untreated PTSD, depression, ADHD etc as well. Just to note all of that for you.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2022 11:53     Subject: AA Chips
Would AA give a 24 hour chip to someone at their first meeting who reports having been sober for a couple of months? Is the 24 hour chip a first meeting thing?

I know better than to trust anything DH says with regard to alcohol or recovery so am looking for some other source for this information.