Anonymous
07/25/2022 09:59
Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's true that integrated/socio-economically diverse schools bring up test scores for disadvantaged students in a way that more funding thrown at hypersegregated schools doesn't. But the gap doesn't disappear.
I am a strong believer in encouraging school systems to reduce pockets of segregation. They can incentivize going to school out of zone through specialty programs (transportation must be provided or else this is just a way to further advantage already advantaged people). "Minority to majority" transfer programs (giving preference via an otherwise blind lottery for students who would be a minority at the school they're applying to) can also help. And of course, encouraging people to consider their local schools if they are being overlooked due to "test scores" (which is usually code for "I don't think enough people like me go to this school").
To answer your original question, it seems from research that it is simply having that diversity of economic conditions in a school that makes the difference. We can imagine why, certainly . . . compare two schools that pay teachers the same, but one is hypersegregated and pulls almost entirely from a public housing court, whereas another has students in public housing all the way up to students with second homes. A teacher is just one person . . . how much can they accomplish in the hypersegregated classroom, versus how much in a classroom where students who haven't had any advantages are only a fraction and there are parent volunteers and PTA money for extras?
Of course, I want us to pay teachers more, fund schools better, etc. But I also believe that diverse schools are good for all of us, and I'm happy to send my kids to them. No child should be attending a Jim Crow school in 2022.
It sounds good, but certainly sounds like the teachers will need to teach to the more disadvantaged students, leaving the high achievers to fend for themselves / ignored.
It does sound good but it will also lower a high-SES school's GS rating which will in turn anger wealthy parents who believe this impacts their property values. Nevertheless, I think they should at least try to have greater SES diversity at all schools without resorting to long-distance busing.
Anonymous
07/25/2022 09:57
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Schools cannot overcome the parental advantage/ disadvantage faced by kids 18 hours a day outside of school. You cannot just throw $ at the problem.
Yes, sad but true. The government isn't in the business, nor should it be of raising children. It should offer the same educational opportunities to everyone, but not impose the same values on everyone. I'm personally skeptical that half the kids that land at a 3rd rate college wouldn't be better off simply entering the workforce...
Anonymous
07/25/2022 09:56
Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:It's true that integrated/socio-economically diverse schools bring up test scores for disadvantaged students in a way that more funding thrown at hypersegregated schools doesn't. But the gap doesn't disappear.
I am a strong believer in encouraging school systems to reduce pockets of segregation. They can incentivize going to school out of zone through specialty programs (transportation must be provided or else this is just a way to further advantage already advantaged people). "Minority to majority" transfer programs (giving preference via an otherwise blind lottery for students who would be a minority at the school they're applying to) can also help. And of course, encouraging people to consider their local schools if they are being overlooked due to "test scores" (which is usually code for "I don't think enough people like me go to this school").
To answer your original question, it seems from research that it is simply having that diversity of economic conditions in a school that makes the difference. We can imagine why, certainly . . . compare two schools that pay teachers the same, but one is hypersegregated and pulls almost entirely from a public housing court, whereas another has students in public housing all the way up to students with second homes. A teacher is just one person . . . how much can they accomplish in the hypersegregated classroom, versus how much in a classroom where students who haven't had any advantages are only a fraction and there are parent volunteers and PTA money for extras?
Of course, I want us to pay teachers more, fund schools better, etc. But I also believe that diverse schools are good for all of us, and I'm happy to send my kids to them. No child should be attending a Jim Crow school in 2022.
It sounds good, but certainly sounds like the teachers will need to teach to the more disadvantaged students, leaving the high achievers to fend for themselves / ignored.
Anonymous
07/25/2022 09:43
Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
It's true that integrated/socio-economically diverse schools bring up test scores for disadvantaged students in a way that more funding thrown at hypersegregated schools doesn't. But the gap doesn't disappear.
I am a strong believer in encouraging school systems to reduce pockets of segregation. They can incentivize going to school out of zone through specialty programs (transportation must be provided or else this is just a way to further advantage already advantaged people). "Minority to majority" transfer programs (giving preference via an otherwise blind lottery for students who would be a minority at the school they're applying to) can also help. And of course, encouraging people to consider their local schools if they are being overlooked due to "test scores" (which is usually code for "I don't think enough people like me go to this school").
To answer your original question, it seems from research that it is simply having that diversity of economic conditions in a school that makes the difference. We can imagine why, certainly . . . compare two schools that pay teachers the same, but one is hypersegregated and pulls almost entirely from a public housing court, whereas another has students in public housing all the way up to students with second homes. A teacher is just one person . . . how much can they accomplish in the hypersegregated classroom, versus how much in a classroom where students who haven't had any advantages are only a fraction and there are parent volunteers and PTA money for extras?
Of course, I want us to pay teachers more, fund schools better, etc. But I also believe that diverse schools are good for all of us, and I'm happy to send my kids to them. No child should be attending a Jim Crow school in 2022.
I am a strong believer in encouraging school systems to reduce pockets of segregation. They can incentivize going to school out of zone through specialty programs (transportation must be provided or else this is just a way to further advantage already advantaged people). "Minority to majority" transfer programs (giving preference via an otherwise blind lottery for students who would be a minority at the school they're applying to) can also help. And of course, encouraging people to consider their local schools if they are being overlooked due to "test scores" (which is usually code for "I don't think enough people like me go to this school").
To answer your original question, it seems from research that it is simply having that diversity of economic conditions in a school that makes the difference. We can imagine why, certainly . . . compare two schools that pay teachers the same, but one is hypersegregated and pulls almost entirely from a public housing court, whereas another has students in public housing all the way up to students with second homes. A teacher is just one person . . . how much can they accomplish in the hypersegregated classroom, versus how much in a classroom where students who haven't had any advantages are only a fraction and there are parent volunteers and PTA money for extras?
Of course, I want us to pay teachers more, fund schools better, etc. But I also believe that diverse schools are good for all of us, and I'm happy to send my kids to them. No child should be attending a Jim Crow school in 2022.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 16:48
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
90% of budget K-5. By middle school track like crazy the way the Europeans do it. Find issues early and tutor like crazy. Soup to nuts). Very minimal for middle and high school. All sports budgets should be funded outside school budget.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 16:39
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Tell parents outright that the only way for their kid to do well is to sit down every night with them and read and do homework. This means the parent will have to sacrifice and explains that is what parents with more income do. It works. Follow their example.
Tell parents outright that learning to speak English as quickly as possible will benefit their child in the long run more than anything the school will do.
Tell parents that speaking grammatically correct english is imperative if they would like their child to do well on tests bc tests are written in standard grammatical English and not recognizing it on a test means they do worse then other kids. The tests aren’t going to change. The kids who do well have parents who have figured this it. Follow their example.
Provide identification. and remediation services earlier on for the most common identified learning disabilities.
Develop and institute standard curriculum with standard materials for all classes within a school. Teachers can’t provide additional unless approved.
Kindergarten - morning academic work - afternoon play and social skills work. Each class should have a dedicated therapist to work with students and yea even those who neurotypical need it to.
Either make it easier to move a child with behavior issues to self contained classes or pay more individual aids. There should be a 3 strike policy and then either one has to be done. We lose way to many teachers and staff who have to deal with this but no real solutions.
High school - any action that is a crime - even a misdemeanor - report to police and the child is tracked to alternative school and after a year of success there with no further incidents then can be considered to return.
High school - if a student reaches senior year and can’t read or do math at grade level, then senior year is an intensive year of remediation with the goal of the student being able to read and do math by the end of the year. The student will be granted a basic diploma if they successfully complete the year.
1. my parents don't speak much English. We were a bilingual household
2. thus, my parents never helped me with HW
3. We were lower income, so my parents could not afford tutors
4. I am in my late 50s, and my parents came from a very old-school traditional culture where women got married at 23 or so and didn't really pursue higher ed.
Having stated that, it is incredibly difficult to overcome all the above. Part of it was cultural - my parents expected us to behave well in school, not get into trouble and even if we weren't going to college (which I did), to still bring home good grades. It was shameful for the family if your kids weren't smart and well behaved.
The other part is sheer luck. My parents even admit they were very lucky. We were latch key kids, but never ever got into trouble. That might also be the case because my dad was tough, and old school about discipline.
I don't advocate the type of parenting my parents followed, but it does require a lot of discipline from the parents, and the parents need to be home to do the above. Hard to do if your parents are working long hours and have to take public transport because they can't afford a car.
For families that don't have the ^ challenges, I agree there is no excuse.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 16:27
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
And yes there are no such schools. Because unless tons of $ is spent and spent well, it’s impossible.
The question is - why bring on more and more high needs kids into the country when there are already so many from generational poverty?!
The question is - why bring on more and more high needs kids into the country when there are already so many from generational poverty?!
Anonymous
07/24/2022 16:26
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Tell parents outright that the only way for their kid to do well is to sit down every night with them and read and do homework. This means the parent will have to sacrifice and explains that is what parents with more income do. It works. Follow their example.
Tell parents outright that learning to speak English as quickly as possible will benefit their child in the long run more than anything the school will do.
Tell parents that speaking grammatically correct english is imperative if they would like their child to do well on tests bc tests are written in standard grammatical English and not recognizing it on a test means they do worse then other kids. The tests aren’t going to change. The kids who do well have parents who have figured this it. Follow their example.
Provide identification. and remediation services earlier on for the most common identified learning disabilities.
Develop and institute standard curriculum with standard materials for all classes within a school. Teachers can’t provide additional unless approved.
Kindergarten - morning academic work - afternoon play and social skills work. Each class should have a dedicated therapist to work with students and yea even those who neurotypical need it to.
Either make it easier to move a child with behavior issues to self contained classes or pay more individual aids. There should be a 3 strike policy and then either one has to be done. We lose way to many teachers and staff who have to deal with this but no real solutions.
High school - any action that is a crime - even a misdemeanor - report to police and the child is tracked to alternative school and after a year of success there with no further incidents then can be considered to return.
High school - if a student reaches senior year and can’t read or do math at grade level, then senior year is an intensive year of remediation with the goal of the student being able to read and do math by the end of the year. The student will be granted a basic diploma if they successfully complete the year.
I can hear all the screams “racism! Racism!” In my head already!
Anonymous
07/24/2022 16:23
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Schools cannot overcome the parental advantage/ disadvantage faced by kids 18 hours a day outside of school. You cannot just throw $ at the problem.
You can but it has to be A LOT of $.
Like, classes of 10 with 2 teachers, extensive mental health services, extensive hands on learning, mentoring, nutrition services etc.
Effectively a boarding school without spending the night so that you can avoid calling it that.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 16:03
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Tell parents outright that the only way for their kid to do well is to sit down every night with them and read and do homework. This means the parent will have to sacrifice and explains that is what parents with more income do. It works. Follow their example.
Tell parents outright that learning to speak English as quickly as possible will benefit their child in the long run more than anything the school will do.
Tell parents that speaking grammatically correct english is imperative if they would like their child to do well on tests bc tests are written in standard grammatical English and not recognizing it on a test means they do worse then other kids. The tests aren’t going to change. The kids who do well have parents who have figured this it. Follow their example.
Provide identification. and remediation services earlier on for the most common identified learning disabilities.
Develop and institute standard curriculum with standard materials for all classes within a school. Teachers can’t provide additional unless approved.
Kindergarten - morning academic work - afternoon play and social skills work. Each class should have a dedicated therapist to work with students and yea even those who neurotypical need it to.
Either make it easier to move a child with behavior issues to self contained classes or pay more individual aids. There should be a 3 strike policy and then either one has to be done. We lose way to many teachers and staff who have to deal with this but no real solutions.
High school - any action that is a crime - even a misdemeanor - report to police and the child is tracked to alternative school and after a year of success there with no further incidents then can be considered to return.
High school - if a student reaches senior year and can’t read or do math at grade level, then senior year is an intensive year of remediation with the goal of the student being able to read and do math by the end of the year. The student will be granted a basic diploma if they successfully complete the year.
Tell parents outright that learning to speak English as quickly as possible will benefit their child in the long run more than anything the school will do.
Tell parents that speaking grammatically correct english is imperative if they would like their child to do well on tests bc tests are written in standard grammatical English and not recognizing it on a test means they do worse then other kids. The tests aren’t going to change. The kids who do well have parents who have figured this it. Follow their example.
Provide identification. and remediation services earlier on for the most common identified learning disabilities.
Develop and institute standard curriculum with standard materials for all classes within a school. Teachers can’t provide additional unless approved.
Kindergarten - morning academic work - afternoon play and social skills work. Each class should have a dedicated therapist to work with students and yea even those who neurotypical need it to.
Either make it easier to move a child with behavior issues to self contained classes or pay more individual aids. There should be a 3 strike policy and then either one has to be done. We lose way to many teachers and staff who have to deal with this but no real solutions.
High school - any action that is a crime - even a misdemeanor - report to police and the child is tracked to alternative school and after a year of success there with no further incidents then can be considered to return.
High school - if a student reaches senior year and can’t read or do math at grade level, then senior year is an intensive year of remediation with the goal of the student being able to read and do math by the end of the year. The student will be granted a basic diploma if they successfully complete the year.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 15:45
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
I don’t know if any public schools that show equal test scores among different socioeconomic groups
Anonymous
07/24/2022 15:14
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:There are public schools where there are significant achievement gaps between students from different socioeconomic backgrounds. Yet some schools thrive despite having great economic differences among the student body - these schools show no significant achievement differences in math, science, social science, and language arts. What are the schools that have no gap doing right? Do these schools provide after-school tutoring, supplemental weekend and summer enrichment? Do these schools provide parents with the resources to supplement their kids or are systemic issues permanent barriers in schools that cannot overcome the gaps (such as parents not having sufficient time because they work in the evenings and nights and needs to sleep during the day)?
Except for Asians, I'd love to know which schools/school districts you are referring to.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 15:01
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Yet some schools thrive despite having great economic differences among the student body - these schools show no significant achievement differences in math, science, social science, and language arts.
What schools/districts are you referring to? How are you measuring achievement gaps - state test scores, GPA within the school, etc.?
Anonymous
07/24/2022 13:21
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Schools cannot overcome the parental advantage/ disadvantage faced by kids 18 hours a day outside of school. You cannot just throw $ at the problem.
Anonymous
07/24/2022 13:17
Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
There are public schools where there are significant achievement gaps between students from different socioeconomic backgrounds. Yet some schools thrive despite having great economic differences among the student body - these schools show no significant achievement differences in math, science, social science, and language arts. What are the schools that have no gap doing right? Do these schools provide after-school tutoring, supplemental weekend and summer enrichment? Do these schools provide parents with the resources to supplement their kids or are systemic issues permanent barriers in schools that cannot overcome the gaps (such as parents not having sufficient time because they work in the evenings and nights and needs to sleep during the day)?