Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious training. Now.

Ok what are your credentials? Curious if you're a trainer. And I know I want to train her more but my post is about the differing views. One is positive reinforcement and leadership. The other is the collar

My credentials are I have been fostering dogs for about five years, including litters of puppies. I am not a trainer. I take dogs with challenges to a trainer. I've worked with a few, try Blue Ridge Canine. They are in Culpepper but do meet ups in the DC metro area.

The thing about training is it isn't finished. It's ongoing. We spent Sunday every week for months meeting our trainer at a park, with others, for training. Some of the participants actually send their dogs away to live with the trainers for a while. Yes, I use but the carrot and the stick - prong collars and high value treats. Bits of hot dog are the best. I've even used an e collar but just the beep and vibrate, not the shock. Whatever it takes to keep a dog behaving in a way that you... can keep the dog.

Have the dog evaluated. It may not be the dog for you. I rescue dogs and don't want any to be abandoned but you can't have a dog in your home you can't trust.

Thanks. So you're disagreeing with the PP's advice on keeping it positive? This is our first dog. She's great! I am naturally scared of dogs and she probably can tell. I think there is some great advice from all angles. We need to work on training more. She does sit and wait before gojng out or eating and does sit down and stay etc. but we need to work on it more. We do like 5 min a day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't let my dogs behave like that until they're very old and I need to monitor their decline carefully. The rest of the time they have to obey, 24/7. They are not humans. They are not allowed to decline the crate or be aggressive when they wake up.

Your case is especially important, OP, because you have a dog on the cusp of teen rebellion. If you don't nip that behavior in the bud, you're going to get more and more pushback for other things, and your puppy's bite inhibition will fade, which is very dangerous. A 40lbs biting rebel is not what you want.

I wake up dogs gently. They have never been aggressive with that sort of wake-up. If they try to growl and snap, they get a very displeased, angry voice. If they don't want to go in the crate, I leash them and pull them inside. Once they're in the crate, they get a treat, and as soon as they calm down, they get a gentle, warm voice. After a while, resistance disappears. Generally, all my dogs understood pretty quickly that they don't the angry tone and the displeased human, and that doing what I ask always leads to a more pleasant life for them. You've got to make the right choice easy to pick!

Thanks-- how do you get them in the crate with the leash? Seems you would have to crawl in there lol. Good advice!

You never want to invade their "den" by going in yourself. Don't let kids or other pets get in there either, since part of the appeal of the crate is that it's their private space that they are sure no one will ever take from them. I pull them up to the crate, and either entice them in with a treat, or physically push them in until they learn to go in of their own accord.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious training. Now.

Ok what are your credentials? Curious if you're a trainer. And I know I want to train her more but my post is about the differing views. One is positive reinforcement and leadership. The other is the collar

My credentials are I have been fostering dogs for about five years, including litters of puppies. I am not a trainer. I take dogs with challenges to a trainer. I've worked with a few, try Blue Ridge Canine. They are in Culpepper but do meet ups in the DC metro area.

The thing about training is it isn't finished. It's ongoing. We spent Sunday every week for months meeting our trainer at a park, with others, for training. Some of the participants actually send their dogs away to live with the trainers for a while. Yes, I use but the carrot and the stick - prong collars and high value treats. Bits of hot dog are the best. I've even used an e collar but just the beep and vibrate, not the shock. Whatever it takes to keep a dog behaving in a way that you... can keep the dog.

Have the dog evaluated. It may not be the dog for you. I rescue dogs and don't want any to be abandoned but you can't have a dog in your home you can't trust.

Anonymous wrote:I don't let my dogs behave like that until they're very old and I need to monitor their decline carefully. The rest of the time they have to obey, 24/7. They are not humans. They are not allowed to decline the crate or be aggressive when they wake up.

Your case is especially important, OP, because you have a dog on the cusp of teen rebellion. If you don't nip that behavior in the bud, you're going to get more and more pushback for other things, and your puppy's bite inhibition will fade, which is very dangerous. A 40lbs biting rebel is not what you want.

I wake up dogs gently. They have never been aggressive with that sort of wake-up. If they try to growl and snap, they get a very displeased, angry voice. If they don't want to go in the crate, I leash them and pull them inside. Once they're in the crate, they get a treat, and as soon as they calm down, they get a gentle, warm voice. After a while, resistance disappears. Generally, all my dogs understood pretty quickly that they don't the angry tone and the displeased human, and that doing what I ask always leads to a more pleasant life for them. You've got to make the right choice easy to pick!

Thanks-- how do you get them in the crate with the leash? Seems you would have to crawl in there lol. Good advice!

I don't let my dogs behave like that until they're very old and I need to monitor their decline carefully. The rest of the time they have to obey, 24/7. They are not humans. They are not allowed to decline the crate or be aggressive when they wake up.

Your case is especially important, OP, because you have a dog on the cusp of teen rebellion. If you don't nip that behavior in the bud, you're going to get more and more pushback for other things, and your puppy's bite inhibition will fade, which is very dangerous. A 40lbs biting rebel is not what you want.

I wake up dogs gently. They have never been aggressive with that sort of wake-up. If they try to growl and snap, they get a very displeased, angry voice. If they don't want to go in the crate, I leash them and pull them inside. Once they're in the crate, they get a treat, and as soon as they calm down, they get a gentle, warm voice. After a while, resistance disappears. Generally, all my dogs understood pretty quickly that they don't the angry tone and the displeased human, and that doing what I ask always leads to a more pleasant life for them. You've got to make the right choice easy to pick!

5 month old doodle is going to growl and snap when hungry or playful. Keep yelping and not giving attention when your pup behaves that way but please understand it's natural and peaks at 4-6months for that breed. It's so tiring but trust she will absolutely improve if you give her a comfortable and secure environment.

Anonymous wrote:Serious training. Now.

Ok what are your credentials? Curious if you're a trainer. And I know I want to train her more but my post is about the differing views. One is positive reinforcement and leadership. The other is the collar

Serious training. Now.

You managed to find two terrible trainers. Don’t try to move her when she’s sleep. She clearly doesn’t like it.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh I'm confused. One trainer agrees with both PP's. But say the dog knows they're in charge so to speak. The other trainer said this will escalate if we don't have consequences and suggested the prong collar.

I'm not even sure how you would use a prong collar in this situation. I've always had dogs, literally since I was born and can't see how a prong would be at all helpful. The PPs have it right, you want a cooperative relationship with your dog, teach it to want what you want.

Ugh I'm confused. One trainer agrees with both PP's. But say the dog knows they're in charge so to speak. The other trainer said this will escalate if we don't have consequences and suggested the prong collar.

Like PP said: You need a new, positive-only trainer.

Have them help you with the crate issue. I've never had to pick up a dog and put them in a crate, and mine have all been crate trained. Your dog is responding to something the only way they can -- with voice and teeth. Maybe it is physically uncomfortable being held; one of mine is like that -- absolutely, completely hates to be held in the air.

Find a way to wake your sleeping dog. I will often put a treat in front of my dog's nose and make it a game. He's a Shepherd and always been on high alert until he reached old age. Now he'll sleep through anything so sleeps with his back against the door! If I put treats in front of his nose or lightly tickle his feet he'll wake up, stretch, and move on.

PS. There is no "tries to bite" from a dog. Dogs are lightning fast, and if they want to bite you, they will. Those are air snaps or warning snaps. You're annoying her, and she's letting you know. Never discourage a dog from growling by punishing them, you will only teach them that they can't growl, which is your warning that they don't like something. They need to be able to tell you so that you can stop. Otherwise, you might end up with a dog that goes straight to biting.

Think of it this way--if you're peacefully sleeping on the sofa and your DH comes home, shoves you and tells you to go sleep elsewhere, would you get pissed at him and snap?

You're making her do things she doesn't like. She's being disturbed and she doesn't like it. A training collar will make it worse. You can't "fix" this really. Leave her alone when asleep, and if you want her to move, give her something she wants. Teach her "crate" and when she gets there, a treat--either food or a toy, depending on motivation. You are not "tricking" her into her crate, you are training her to enter on your command. So next time, say "Puppy (whatever the name is, this is to get her attention--I always preface a command with the nameso they look at me), then say crate". When she's in, treat, say good girl, or whatever. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Crate is never for punishment.

THere are many, many bad trainers out there. The trainer who told you to just pick her up is an idiot. You don't have to have any qualifications to be a dog trainer. Be cautious.


i have always had large working breeds--could you pick up a 120 lb dog who doesn't want to go into his crate? I can't. I've learned from having 5 of this breed (and other dogs) how to train them, and I've learned from 2 trainers who worked almost exclusively with military and police dogs. Positive reinforcement only, and they don't physically move dogs around like what you describe.

our 5 month old puppy is great is every way- social, loves people and dogs, cuddly and usually submissive except one problem. She occasionally growls (and then snaps or tries to bite if we continue) this is when we try to crate her by lifting her and carrying her to the crate. Or sometimes when she is sleeping and being moved or handled. She is 20 lbs and a mini golden doodle. Will probably be 40 lbs.

I have been told mixed things-- and read mixed things. A trainer today said we need a training collar and we can't be passive about it anymore or she could become aggressive or already is! I am so upset because I don't know what caused it. We have ignored it and continued moving her or also stopped moving her.. and it's not often at all but enough that it bothers me and I find i have to trick her to get her into the crate. She loves her crate and sleeps all night and naps in there> She also goes into in on her own at times. Another trainer said just pick her up and ignore but she progresses to snapping or biting (Not that hard but she has puppy teeth) she hasn't broken skin or anything .. more just snaps.

This is our first dog-- so not sure how to nip this in the bud but I am open to e collar if need be. Any suggestions welcome...