febegaj wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Your basic premise is flawed in saying the students are equal level performers. If they are performing equally with the students at the weaker school, then they are most likely not getting in.
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.

I don't think it is flawed. I'm not saying the student in school A performs equally with the rest of the students in school A. E.g. you can imagine the exact same student, "cloned" across those 3 schools, and comparing the chances for each "cloned" student in each school.

Anonymous wrote:The students at C are not disadvantaged compared to B, but both B & C are disadvantaged compared to A.

Anonymous wrote:
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.

So for concrete numbers, and to show if I understand correctly: suppose open pool is 50 spots. Then A offers 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, B has 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, and C has 50 from open pool.

Student in school A (which is in the same academic level as that in B and in C), has a chance to get one of the 6 spots by competing against 100 academically weaker students, therefore at an advantage.
Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult.
Student in school C has no pre-allocated spots at all, therefore can only compete against the open pool from all schools, so student C is the most disadvantaged student of all 3. So I guess what PP 06/23/2022 11:29 said is correct?

This is the way it essentially works: The general pool will effectively be a lottery since there are going to be tons of kids with 4.0s who can write good essays. The lottery part is that the specific reviewer you drew and whether they nitpick the essay or give full marks will matter much more than the student's ability.

In your scenario, say the kid is a moderately bright student with a 3.75 and a few minor accomplishments. In school A, the kid will likely get in. In schools B and C, there is no chance.
Now, say the kid is a 4.0 student with major achievements. The kid will get in in school A. In B, there will still be 50 other kids just as accomplished. The kid has a 9/50 chance of getting a designated spot + whatever chance would be obtained through the general pool. C will just have the general pool.

Anonymous wrote:
Your basic premise is flawed in saying the students are equal level performers. If they are performing equally with the students at the weaker school, then they are most likely not getting in.
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.

I don't think it is flawed. I'm not saying the student in school A performs equally with the rest of the students in school A. E.g. you can imagine the exact same student, "cloned" across those 3 schools, and comparing the chances for each "cloned" student in each school.

Anonymous wrote:The students at C are not disadvantaged compared to B, but both B & C are disadvantaged compared to A.

Anonymous wrote:
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.

So for concrete numbers, and to show if I understand correctly: suppose open pool is 50 spots. Then A offers 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, B has 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, and C has 50 from open pool.

Student in school A (which is in the same academic level as that in B and in C), has a chance to get one of the 6 spots by competing against 100 academically weaker students, therefore at an advantage.
Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult.
Student in school C has no pre-allocated spots at all, therefore can only compete against the open pool from all schools, so student C is the most disadvantaged student of all 3. So I guess what PP 06/23/2022 11:29 said is correct?

The students at C are not disadvantaged compared to B, but both B & C are disadvantaged compared to A.

Your basic premise is flawed in saying the students are equal level performers. If they are performing equally with the students at the weaker school, then they are most likely not getting in.
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.

febegaj wrote:I see contradicting answers and I am still confused.
So suppose we have 3 middle schools, each with 100 students.
School A is FCPS "lower-performing", school B is FCPS "high-performing" and school C is private.
We have 3 students x,y,z from schools A,B and C respectively. All 3 students have the same academic level.
What are (roughly) the TJ admission odds for each student?

A>>B>C

I see contradicting answers and I am still confused.
So suppose we have 3 middle schools, each with 100 students.
School A is FCPS "lower-performing", school B is FCPS "high-performing" and school C is private.
We have 3 students x,y,z from schools A,B and C respectively. All 3 students have the same academic level.
What are (roughly) the TJ admission odds for each student?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

febegaj wrote:So this means that a kid from a private school has the same chance compared with a kid e.g. from Longfellow?

No. Longfellow is allocated seats 1.5% of its 8th-grade class, as well as being eligible for unallocated seats. Private schools are only eligible for unallocated seats.

Sounds like Longfellow gets the same odds as any place. 1.5% is 1.5%...

There's a distinction between "odds" and "process."

The process for Longfellow kids is the same as for any other public middle school in a participating school division. And that process advantages public school kids compared to private school kids, because students at private schools don't have a 1.5% set-aside.

The odds would be a reflection of other factors beyond the process (i.e., for example, do the Longfellow kids present better or understand what FCPS is now looking for in the essay and snag more of the unallocated seats).

The private school students would be in the same position as Longfellow, since any student at the private who would be in the top 1.5% of Longfellow would be given a spot in the open pool.

Anonymous wrote:

febegaj wrote:So this means that a kid from a private school has the same chance compared with a kid e.g. from Longfellow?

No. Longfellow is allocated seats 1.5% of its 8th-grade class, as well as being eligible for unallocated seats. Private schools are only eligible for unallocated seats.

Sounds like Longfellow gets the same odds as any place. 1.5% is 1.5%...

febegaj wrote:I am confused now. So this means that a kid from a private middle school has less chances than a kid from *any* FCPS middle school (including the high-performing ones?)

Is there a link that shows exactly how the allocation system works?

From the FCPS web site:

"Seat Allocation Process

Each public school within Fairfax County and each cooperating school division will be presumptively allocated a number of seats equal to 1.5% of that school’s 8th grade student population (“Allocated Seats”). The remainder of seats will not be allocated to any specific public school (“Unallocated Seats”). In the event a school has fewer eligible applicants than its number of Allocated Seats, the difference will be treated as Unallocated Seats

Allocated Seats - Applicants attending public school will be first evaluated against other applicants from the same school, and students with the strongest evaluated applications from that school will be offered admission.

Unallocated Seats - All remaining public school applicants and applicants who do not attend public school in Fairfax County or in a cooperating division will be considered for the Unallocated Seats, which will be offered to the highest evaluated applicants in that group."

What PP was saying is that Longfellow gets its share of "Allocated Seats" and other Longfellow kids may get "Unallocated Seats," whereas private school kids only get in through "Unallocated Seats." Same is true for any other public school in a participating division compared to private school students.

I am confused now. So this means that a kid from a private middle school has less chances than a kid from *any* FCPS middle school (including the high-performing ones?)

Is there a link that shows exactly how the allocation system works?

febegaj wrote:So this means that a kid from a private school has the same chance compared with a kid e.g. from Longfellow?

No. Longfellow is allocated seats 1.5% of its 8th-grade class, as well as being eligible for unallocated seats. Private schools are only eligible for unallocated seats.

So this means that a kid from a private school has the same chance compared with a kid e.g. from Longfellow?

Anonymous wrote:They are eligible and would be in the open pool, same as students at other middle schools that get lots of students into TJ.

They would be eligible in the open pool. But at a disadvantage as other lower-performing schools are allocated quotas for admission.

They are eligible and would be in the open pool, same as students at other middle schools that get lots of students into TJ.

Suppose a kid goes to FCPS for elementary school and to a private school for middle-school. Is that kid still eligible to apply for TJ? And if yes, does a kid from a private school have a disadvantage compared to kid from FCPS?