Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 12:37     Subject: Re:Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
DD is the same age and in the same proverbial boat - she has good friends but so wants to be included with the popular girls. She’s already been identified as a “brain” which is great in my mind but she would rather be a tall, cool girl.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 12:34     Subject: Re:Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.


While my son is a coordinated athlete, soccer is too rough for him.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 12:32     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.

After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.

There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.

Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.

And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.


So untrue in our school. The “cool boys” are the rough-and-tumble jocks. Not the swimming, tennis, baseball players or the smart kids (the smart kids - sadly for everyone - are identified very early).
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 12:22     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.

After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.

There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.

Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.

And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.


Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.


Sorry, but I have to disagree. Perhaps they're popular in your mind. Or theirs. But most of the students in any given school just don't care that the sporty ones are "supposed" to be popular Also, it's funny that it's just always certain kinds of sports, and not others.

I've got high schoolers. I've been at this for some time. Every time a thread like this comes up on DCUM, and a bunch of posters agree with each other that certain sports=popular, I have to laugh. Perhaps you're all in a self-reinforcing social circle where you feel this is true, but you've got to accept that a lot of other families just don't see it that way. So if you've got kids who are suffering from a perception that they're not breaking into whatever group they wish to break into, you have to encourage them to seek out other friends, and socialize with new people. Don't fall into the flawed thinking that your child's little circle is a reflection of the wider world.


Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 11:47     Subject: Re:Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.


These two posters are correct. The athletic boys are and will continue to be the popular ones. And it actually doesn't even out, as you predict, ever. And many of those athletic (why does everyone say "sporty?) boys are also smart. The message I eventually gave my kids is that some kids just live a charmed life. They were born with great genes and also work hard to make the most of the strengths they were born with. The best thing you can do is the same--work hard, be the best person you can be. The worst parents are the ones who try to convince their kids that athletic kids aren't as smart, or are insecure, or whatever negative attribute they want to project onto the charmed kids just to make themselves and their kids feel better. And a last piece of advice OP--are you sure your kid cares as much as you think he does? You say it hurts you to see it. He probably picks up on your feelings about it. You may want to examine who actually cares more. I don't say this as a criticism. There are definitely times at which I probably cared more about that stuff than my kids did.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 11:23     Subject: Re:Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 11:19     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Honestly I’d get him contacts and sign him up for more sports if he wants to do them. If he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys, let him.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 11:14     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.

After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.

There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.

Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.

And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.


Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 11:01     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.

Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.

After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.

There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.

Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.

And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 10:46     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:He will find his tribe eventually. Rather than focusing on what to say to him, maybe you should look for opportunities to get him in groups of kids where his strengths are more likely to shine? STEM camp? Some volunteer opportunity?

But also it is ok to want something desperately that you can't quite reach. It's good for developing resilience.


I agree with this. Channel him into things he's strong at - STEM, magnet program, playdates with similarly minded kids. The number of kids who are in the so-called popular group is a fraction of all the boys his age. Most kids are not or don't have that interest. If you channel his strengths, he'll develop self confidence from the things he does well and he's more likely to find friends with similar interests. He doesn't realize at his age that popularity at this age won't matter when he's older. Plus the concept of popularity is fluid anyway.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 10:39     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Teach him that some boys have no friends.


How does that help? Honest question.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 10:39     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:He will find his tribe eventually. Rather than focusing on what to say to him, maybe you should look for opportunities to get him in groups of kids where his strengths are more likely to shine? STEM camp? Some volunteer opportunity?

But also it is ok to want something desperately that you can't quite reach. It's good for developing resilience.


OP here. He does have friends and does do thinks with boys more like himself. But it’s his longing to be part of this other group and be like them that hurts to watch.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 10:35     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
He will find his tribe eventually. Rather than focusing on what to say to him, maybe you should look for opportunities to get him in groups of kids where his strengths are more likely to shine? STEM camp? Some volunteer opportunity?

But also it is ok to want something desperately that you can't quite reach. It's good for developing resilience.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 10:33     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Teach him that some boys have no friends.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2022 10:21     Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
DS is a rising 3rd grader and very smart. He does great in academics and some sports but is small (10th percentile) and wears glasses. He is a really great kid - kind, inclusive, and outgoing. But he is not part of the bigger, rougher, popular boys groups at either school or swim team and I know he wants to be desperately. He does have some good friends but I can see that he longs to be part of the popular boys group.

What can I tell him to make him feel better about who he is? I know it will all even out by high school and college but I hate seeing him wanting to be something he just isn’t.