Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

I'm annoyed by the lack of inventory as well, because it means I have to continue driving my beat-up car, but comparing it to baby formula is WILD. Just absolutely WILD. Yes, we live in a capitalist society where supply and deman matter. Right now, there is a very low supply of vehicles. Historically low. This means there are not used cars being traded in, and it's distorting the market. Just wait it out for now.

There is an MSRP on each car for a reason, just because production is low the car makers are NOT upping the MSRP - the dealers are doing that - pure greed during a pandemic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

I'm annoyed by the lack of inventory as well, because it means I have to continue driving my beat-up car, but comparing it to baby formula is WILD. Just absolutely WILD. Yes, we live in a capitalist society where supply and deman matter. Right now, there is a very low supply of vehicles. Historically low. This means there are not used cars being traded in, and it's distorting the market. Just wait it out for now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

Anonymous wrote:I have never enjoyed new car shopping, but 2022 car shopping has been the worst ever. One dealership is adding $6k over MSRP and they don't even have the cars on the lot. It feels sleazy and predatory. I feel like I don't doing business with these sleazebags. Is there any alternative?