Anonymous wrote:Yes. And I always found it strange the way lesbians (mainly white lesbians) are celebrated as mothers but some black mothers are demonized for the children not having fathers.

I don't see this, but I do see lesbian parents supporting each other and Black mothers supporting each other. Even *gasp* mothers supporting one another across races.

Black mothers and fathers are demonized by conservatives when the father is not present in the home--that is just plain racism.

Lesbian mothers (of all colors, races, etc.) are treated poorly by some, and demonized by some--that is just plain bigotry.

Hm, I don’t know. The only thing I can think of that has messaged the importance of fathers is stuff like this marketing campaign: https://www.fatherhood.gov/for-programs/fatherhood-media-campaign. I don’t think it’s saying “kids can’t be whole without fathers.” Rather, it’s suggesting to men who have babies with women that there is value to sticking around and helping raise them. That’s a great message.

It’s sort of like BLM or breast cancer awareness or whatever. It doesn’t mean that those things are the ONLY things that are important, it’s just saying they are and targeting certain audiences with positive messaging about the topic’s worth.

It’s an incel thing. Men are obsessed with feeling wanted/needed.

"Fatherless" households is archaic. It's single vs. two parent household now.

I don’t think it silences anyone. It does, however, make me roll my eyes.

-lesbian mom

SMBC here. I actually hate the term “by choice” since even that is complicated. Maybe not my first choice but c’est la vie. But yes why can’t we just acknowledge that all families are different and many moms (and single dads for that matter) at all income levels whether by choice or not do a bang up job raising their kids. Many supposedly two parent families have one absent parent.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. And I always found it strange the way lesbians (mainly white lesbians) are celebrated as mothers but some black mothers are demonized for the children not having fathers.

Are you a lesbian or a single black mother?

Anonymous wrote:Yes. And I always found it strange the way lesbians (mainly white lesbians) are celebrated as mothers but some black mothers are demonized for the children not having fathers.

See, I would consider this silences single black mothers. I think that people who want a family involving one (or more) fathers should feel free to talk about why they want that and how that can be achieved without demonizing people who want to or choose to start families without fathers. But I absolutely agree it's gross to uplift (white and/or rich) lesbians and SMBC and put down (black and/or poor) single mothers by circumstance but there's nothing wrong with black or white single mothers by circumstance asking that the men (or women) they planned to coparent with show up.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, if you are talking about a Dan Quayle-style "discussion" that's really just conservatives using any excuse to blame single moms for everything, then yes, I guess.

But if you are talking about an actual discussion about the importance of fathers in their children's lives, then no. Kids with two moms or with a SMBC don't have fathers, so I'm not worked up about the fact that their fathers aren't around. However, among kids who DO have fathers, sometimes those men choose to not show up in their kids' lives, and yes of course that is a problem and we as a society should have higher expectations for men as fathers.

Though I'll note here that I did not grow up in a "fatherless household" and my dad was still barely present in my life growing up. So it's a more nuanced conversation.

But yes, of course you can discuss the concept of fatherhood and why it is important without it being an insulting to lesbians with kids or SMBCs. Men with children need to show up for their kids. See -- that's not silencing anyone.

What a dumb statement. The bolded is so paradoxical it’s ridiculous.

Yes. And I always found it strange the way lesbians (mainly white lesbians) are celebrated as mothers but some black mothers are demonized for the children not having fathers.

I mean, if you are talking about a Dan Quayle-style "discussion" that's really just conservatives using any excuse to blame single moms for everything, then yes, I guess.

But if you are talking about an actual discussion about the importance of fathers in their children's lives, then no. Kids with two moms or with a SMBC don't have fathers, so I'm not worked up about the fact that their fathers aren't around. However, among kids who DO have fathers, sometimes those men choose to not show up in their kids' lives, and yes of course that is a problem and we as a society should have higher expectations for men as fathers.

Though I'll note here that I did not grow up in a "fatherless household" and my dad was still barely present in my life growing up. So it's a more nuanced conversation.

But yes, of course you can discuss the concept of fatherhood and why it is important without it being an insulting to lesbians with kids or SMBCs. Men with children need to show up for their kids. See -- that's not silencing anyone.

Anonymous wrote:OP-You’re not a very conversationalist. You could’ve just wrote this in your journal.

This is a discussion board.

OP-You’re not a very conversationalist. You could’ve just wrote this in your journal.

SMBC here. Which “discussion” are you talking about? I don’t feel particularly silenced. In many cases the concern about “fatherless” households only comes into play when one is poor and non-white.

I believe it does.