Anonymous
04/19/2022 12:44
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Anonymous wrote:A lot of the time, they are reopened with new administrations. The closure allows the district to clean house and start fresh with new teachers and administrators
Are there examples of this where it actually worked? Really curious!
Anonymous
04/19/2022 12:41
Subject: Re:What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I truly think it’s a white supremacist dog whistle. They want the schools closed so they can just erase the poor black/brown students in those communities. There’s likely an assumption that most of them will end up being incarcerated anyway so the only reason to keep such schools open is to enable the school-prison pipeline.
I think it's the other way around. Closing the schools makes it more likely those kids end up in school with their snowflakes. I think most white supremacists are perfectly happy to have failing schools warehouse black/brown kids far away from their own children.
But I don’t think they consider the nuance or use logical reasoning. They just don’t feel those kids or their communities “deserve” to be in school so go with the snap argument of shutting them down without really considering all the consequences. It’s a punitive mindset of punishing the poor. Make it harder to vote, get medical care, obtain an education or good jobs, secure housing, etc.
Remember there was a time in history when parts of Virginia shut down entire school districts rather than desegregating.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 12:01
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
A lot of the time, they are reopened with new administrations. The closure allows the district to clean house and start fresh with new teachers and administrators
Anonymous
04/19/2022 11:59
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Hang on, the reality is that many times schools have terrible administrations that have wasted or stolen resources, teachers etc. The building may be a disaster.
All of these things often lead to poor environments and contribute to weaker outcomes for students. Eventually, the word gets out that the school is terrible so everyone who can will avoid sending their kids there.
At which point, enrollment and performance drop significantly. You can replace the administration, but its not going to get families who have choices in the door. So you shut the school.
But what do you do after you shut down the school? The kids have to be enrolled somewhere. The neighboring schools might not be equipped to handle the influx of kids, and now you've given a lot of kids a longer commute.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 11:19
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
If enrollment drops overall, are you going to close the schools where kids are performing best or worst?
Anonymous
04/19/2022 11:18
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Hang on, the reality is that many times schools have terrible administrations that have wasted or stolen resources, teachers etc. The building may be a disaster.
All of these things often lead to poor environments and contribute to weaker outcomes for students. Eventually, the word gets out that the school is terrible so everyone who can will avoid sending their kids there.
At which point, enrollment and performance drop significantly. You can replace the administration, but its not going to get families who have choices in the door. So you shut the school.
All of these things often lead to poor environments and contribute to weaker outcomes for students. Eventually, the word gets out that the school is terrible so everyone who can will avoid sending their kids there.
At which point, enrollment and performance drop significantly. You can replace the administration, but its not going to get families who have choices in the door. So you shut the school.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 11:12
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Housing policy is a more effective tool to economic desegregation than focusing on school policies (and with wider-ranging impact)
I agree more with this line of thinking. Trying to fix schools directly is tinkering at the margins at this point.
We need to find better ways to address concentrated poverty and prevent more people from falling into poverty. Mixed income housing can be a part of it. But then we run into NIMBYism in the suburbs and gentrification in the cities.
Housing is absolutely the primary driver of overall school performance. In Fairfax County, all of the low-performing schools are in that situation because they've been assigned multiple low-income apartment complexes while the adjacent districts have minimal or no apartments assigned.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 10:53
Subject: Re:What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Anonymous wrote:I truly think it’s a white supremacist dog whistle. They want the schools closed so they can just erase the poor black/brown students in those communities. There’s likely an assumption that most of them will end up being incarcerated anyway so the only reason to keep such schools open is to enable the school-prison pipeline.
I think it's the other way around. Closing the schools makes it more likely those kids end up in school with their snowflakes. I think most white supremacists are perfectly happy to have failing schools warehouse black/brown kids far away from their own children.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 10:52
Subject: Re:What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
shan1212 wrote:I have various thoughts about this.
First, test scores are basically just a measure of socioeconomic demographics. So shame on us for hyper-segregating schools, letting them be over 90% economically disadvantaged, and then saying, gee, why aren't you performing just like some affluent suburb? Huh, must be your subpar teachings, that must be it . . .
So I say, yes, let's stop hyper-segregating schools. Let's make sure no child attends a hypersegregated school.
But should the onus be on those students to lose their neighborhood schools, their longtime teachers? They should have to travel long distances to attend school outside of their community when they already face so many disadvantages? That's not the right solution either.
It takes a nuanced, realistic approach. Ideally we'd provide attractive programming at every school, and give preference to students helping schools achieve more balanced demographics (it's illegal to make those decisions based solely on race, but you can set up "minority to majority" enrollment policies, so that someone who would increase demographic diversity is given preference over someone who wouldn't). We need to provide space for these students to opt in to programs at already high performing schools, and foster a community, we're all in this together spirit that will counter NIMBYism and resource hoarding among those who already at "elite" schools.
There aren't enough students on grade level in DCPS to spread around in order to bring every school up to par, and that's assuming that a family wouldn't just send their kid to private rather than have them commute from Chevy Chase to Ballou.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 10:48
Subject: Re:What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
I truly think it’s a white supremacist dog whistle. They want the schools closed so they can just erase the poor black/brown students in those communities. There’s likely an assumption that most of them will end up being incarcerated anyway so the only reason to keep such schools open is to enable the school-prison pipeline.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 05:34
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Housing policy is a more effective tool to economic desegregation than focusing on school policies (and with wider-ranging impact)
I agree more with this line of thinking. Trying to fix schools directly is tinkering at the margins at this point.
We need to find better ways to address concentrated poverty and prevent more people from falling into poverty. Mixed income housing can be a part of it. But then we run into NIMBYism in the suburbs and gentrification in the cities.
Anonymous
04/18/2022 23:02
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Housing policy is a more effective tool to economic desegregation than focusing on school policies (and with wider-ranging impact)
Anonymous
04/18/2022 21:36
Subject: Re:What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
That's not really going to help. Very few parents in low-income schools are going to put their kids on buses to go to other schools far away. Another reason why vouchers won't work either. I work in a high-poverty school and we have up to half of the class not allowed to go on field trips. Many parents are undocumented and don't trust their kids to go anywhere. Even when the teachers offer to pay for students whose parents won't sign the permission slip, the parents won't allow the students to go.
shan1212
04/18/2022 21:13
Subject: Re:What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
I have various thoughts about this.
First, test scores are basically just a measure of socioeconomic demographics. So shame on us for hyper-segregating schools, letting them be over 90% economically disadvantaged, and then saying, gee, why aren't you performing just like some affluent suburb? Huh, must be your subpar teachings, that must be it . . .
So I say, yes, let's stop hyper-segregating schools. Let's make sure no child attends a hypersegregated school.
But should the onus be on those students to lose their neighborhood schools, their longtime teachers? They should have to travel long distances to attend school outside of their community when they already face so many disadvantages? That's not the right solution either.
It takes a nuanced, realistic approach. Ideally we'd provide attractive programming at every school, and give preference to students helping schools achieve more balanced demographics (it's illegal to make those decisions based solely on race, but you can set up "minority to majority" enrollment policies, so that someone who would increase demographic diversity is given preference over someone who wouldn't). We need to provide space for these students to opt in to programs at already high performing schools, and foster a community, we're all in this together spirit that will counter NIMBYism and resource hoarding among those who already at "elite" schools.
First, test scores are basically just a measure of socioeconomic demographics. So shame on us for hyper-segregating schools, letting them be over 90% economically disadvantaged, and then saying, gee, why aren't you performing just like some affluent suburb? Huh, must be your subpar teachings, that must be it . . .
So I say, yes, let's stop hyper-segregating schools. Let's make sure no child attends a hypersegregated school.
But should the onus be on those students to lose their neighborhood schools, their longtime teachers? They should have to travel long distances to attend school outside of their community when they already face so many disadvantages? That's not the right solution either.
It takes a nuanced, realistic approach. Ideally we'd provide attractive programming at every school, and give preference to students helping schools achieve more balanced demographics (it's illegal to make those decisions based solely on race, but you can set up "minority to majority" enrollment policies, so that someone who would increase demographic diversity is given preference over someone who wouldn't). We need to provide space for these students to opt in to programs at already high performing schools, and foster a community, we're all in this together spirit that will counter NIMBYism and resource hoarding among those who already at "elite" schools.
Anonymous
04/18/2022 19:19
Subject: What do people mean why they say a school should be shut down for performance reasons?
Because 9 times out of 10, it’s not because of the teachers. So what do you want to do with the students if the school “goes out of business” that still complied with FAPE. I see this sentiment expressed toward most DCPS high schools.
Because closing a school down didn’t fix Jefferson Houston in Va.
Because closing a school down didn’t fix Jefferson Houston in Va.