Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 10:35     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Hindsight is 20/20. Back then, the world was worried that former Soviet states would start selling leftover nukes to North Korea, Iran, etc to raise hard currency or simply for corrupt local elites to get rich. Ukraine especially had a power vacuum: weak/non-existent domestic political leadership independent from the USSR, no robust independent civil society institutions, no experience with democracy, and no independent military/policing to safeguard the country/borders/physical assets.

Disarmament was in the world's interest at that time.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 09:49     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The promise made by Russia was broken.


The promise made by US was also broken.

Can you link to the promise that the US made Ukraine during this period?


https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

Russia maintains that the current Ukrainian admin is not legitimate and therefore Russia does not have to hold up its prior agreements.

Thank you. I’m not seeing a promise broken by the U.S. I see many broken by Russia.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 09:48     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:This is appalling that everyone doesn’t know this. The Ukrainians have pointed this out many times and feel very betrayed. It also will make it basically impossible to get any country to give up their nukes in the future, or to get countries to abandon efforts to get nukes. The narrative that we can’t help Ukraine because two nuclear powers can’t be at war is not helping—it just says to every non nuclear country out there that they better hurry up and get nukes or they are potentially on the menu for some dictator that does have them.

I agree the world would be better off without nuclear weapons. However those states that are currently pursuing nuclear armament are doing it to defend against the United States and its allies - the DPRK and Iran. Their pursuit of nukes has nothing to do with Russia or Ukraine or defending against a dictator, only with the US. Also, treaty allies of the US are shielded under our nuclear umbrella.
All other current nuclear powers are accepted members of the club.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 09:46     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The promise made by Russia was broken.


The promise made by US was also broken.

Can you link to the promise that the US made Ukraine during this period?


https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

Russia maintains that the current Ukrainian admin is not legitimate and therefore Russia does not have to hold up its prior agreements.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 09:15     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Seems Ukraine has nuclear weapons in 1992-1994. They had about 1200 nuclear warheads left by the Soviet Union. They had full operational control of all of them.

Then In 1994, USA ( Clinton ) and Russia have security assurances to Ukraine to give up their Nukes. They were promised security in exchange for returning the nuclear weapons to Russia and USA also promised military assurance for support.

https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/


I guess moral of the story is keep your Nukes! If they still had them, Russia would not be invading a nuclear country. And promises made by USA and Russia are useless 30 years later.



Hopefully, few people reading this will be encountering this fact for the first time. This is just basic knowledge of recent history.

Except OP’s “facts” claim that Ukraine had full operational control of those weapons which is not a fact.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 08:46     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:
Seems Ukraine has nuclear weapons in 1992-1994. They had about 1200 nuclear warheads left by the Soviet Union. They had full operational control of all of them.

Then In 1994, USA ( Clinton ) and Russia have security assurances to Ukraine to give up their Nukes. They were promised security in exchange for returning the nuclear weapons to Russia and USA also promised military assurance for support.

https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/


I guess moral of the story is keep your Nukes! If they still had them, Russia would not be invading a nuclear country. And promises made by USA and Russia are useless 30 years later.



Hopefully, few people reading this will be encountering this fact for the first time. This is just basic knowledge of recent history.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 08:46     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The promise made by Russia was broken.


The promise made by US was also broken.

Can you link to the promise that the US made Ukraine during this period?
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 08:44     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:It was never an option for Ukraine to keep them.

+1 The whole premise of this thread is wrong. “Ukraine giving up its nukes”? They weren’t Ukraine’s nukes. Ukraine never possessed operational control of the weapons.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 08:39     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:
The promise made by Russia was broken.


The promise made by US was also broken.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2022 08:10     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
This is appalling that everyone doesn’t know this. The Ukrainians have pointed this out many times and feel very betrayed. It also will make it basically impossible to get any country to give up their nukes in the future, or to get countries to abandon efforts to get nukes. The narrative that we can’t help Ukraine because two nuclear powers can’t be at war is not helping—it just says to every non nuclear country out there that they better hurry up and get nukes or they are potentially on the menu for some dictator that does have them.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2022 22:44     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Anonymous wrote:Sorry, not full operational control but still had control of al other warheads and ICBM’s.

Did they have the launch codes though
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2022 17:21     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
It was never an option for Ukraine to keep them.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2022 15:05     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994
Sorry, not full operational control but still had control of al other warheads and ICBM’s.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2022 10:51     Subject: Re:Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994

The promise made by Russia was broken.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2022 10:23     Subject: Interesting History about Ukraine giving up it Nukes in 1994

Seems Ukraine has nuclear weapons in 1992-1994. They had about 1200 nuclear warheads left by the Soviet Union. They had full operational control of all of them.

Then In 1994, USA ( Clinton ) and Russia have security assurances to Ukraine to give up their Nukes. They were promised security in exchange for returning the nuclear weapons to Russia and USA also promised military assurance for support.

https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/


I guess moral of the story is keep your Nukes! If they still had them, Russia would not be invading a nuclear country. And promises made by USA and Russia are useless 30 years later.