Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not clear, but I think Section A means that, in the event of death, the date of death = 30 days’ notice (not the first day of the thirty day period, but the end of it).

I looked at this again and I feel more confident that the interpretation above is correct, for two reasons:
1) First, it eliminates the inconsistency you mentioned of requiring 30 days' written notice and then immediately referring to the refund requirements.
2) Second, the word "this" in the phrase "this notice."

"A. Termination by Resident and Refund Policy
The Resident may terminate this agreement at any time, regardless of cause, by giving the Facility 30 (thirty) days advance notice in writing. This notice is deemed to have been given automatically on the date of the Resident’s death.

"[T]his notice" is referring to the 30 (thirty) days advance notice in writing in the preceding sentence. If the Facility intended to say death = the start of the notice period, then the sentence would start with the word "notice," i.e., "Notice is deemed to have been given...."
This Notice means that it is referring to the notice described in the preceding sentence, which is the 30 days' written notice.

FWIW, I do write contracts for a living, though not this type of contract. However, my colleagues and I do spend time agonizing over whether a comma changes the meaning of a sentence, or whether using the word 'this' in front of a noun like notice conveys a particular meaning.

Thanks, that now makes more sense.

After having read your post and replied to the previous post, I'm guessing the group care home manager might claim that no refund is owed because the items didn't get shipped until around the end of the month, even though her things were removed from her room (and stored elsewhere in the house) within a couple of days of my mother's passing. I don't really have a way to prove that though.

Anonymous wrote:When did you get her stuff out of the facility?

We could have removed her belongings and shipped them to ourselves while we were out there, so by February 20 or so. But the care home owner offered to pack them up and ship them, so we figured we'd accept the offer since we had plenty of other things to take care of with regards to the funeral, etc. I figured he would just bill us for the time and expense of the shipping. It wasn't a lot of things, so it could easily have been done in a few hours.

I took a while for him to ship them, though, so I think it was the end of February by the time he actually sent them to us. But I know for a fact that her actual room was emptied of her belongings by February 20, because when we went by the home to collect a few smaller items that were too valuable to ship, I asked if I could see her room a final time through the window, and he said there was nothing to see, because it was empty. (We were not allowed to enter the home that day, because someone had just tested positive for covid. He brought out her personal effects to the porch in boxes, so we could get the jewelry and photos and documents that we didn't want to risk losing through the mail.)

Anonymous wrote:It is not clear, but I think Section A means that, in the event of death, the date of death = 30 days’ notice (not the first day of the thirty day period, but the end of it).

I looked at this again and I feel more confident that the interpretation above is correct, for two reasons:
1) First, it eliminates the inconsistency you mentioned of requiring 30 days' written notice and then immediately referring to the refund requirements.
2) Second, the word "this" in the phrase "this notice."

"A. Termination by Resident and Refund Policy
The Resident may terminate this agreement at any time, regardless of cause, by giving the Facility 30 (thirty) days advance notice in writing. This notice is deemed to have been given automatically on the date of the Resident’s death.

"[T]his notice" is referring to the 30 (thirty) days advance notice in writing in the preceding sentence. If the Facility intended to say death = the start of the notice period, then the sentence would start with the word "notice," i.e., "Notice is deemed to have been given...."
This Notice means that it is referring to the notice described in the preceding sentence, which is the 30 days' written notice.

FWIW, I do write contracts for a living, though not this type of contract. However, my colleagues and I do spend time agonizing over whether a comma changes the meaning of a sentence, or whether using the word 'this' in front of a noun like notice conveys a particular meaning.

It is not clear, but I think Section A means that, in the event of death, the date of death = 30 days’ notice (not the first day of the thirty day period, but the end of it).

So...at the most...it would be maybe $4,000? You said she was very happy there and they took good care of her. You acknowledge that they packed and shipped her belongings and that cost them money.

Let it go.

When did you get her stuff out of the facility?

Anonymous wrote:When did she die in the month? The 6th, the 15th, the 24th?

She died on the 18th.

And to answer the previous PP, it does reference death in the contract language. It says that 30 days notice is assumed to be given on the date of death. That seems to imply that you owe them for 30 days beyond the date of death. But then further down it talks about them owing the family a refund for days that were paid for but not used. That's why I find it confusing.

When did she die in the month? The 6th, the 15th, the 24th?

I don't see how 30 days notice applies in the case of a death. Shouldn't that be addressed separately? There is no notice possible with that.

I would inquire if you are due any kind of refund given your mother passed middle of the month, if there is not any specific language regarding death.

My mother passed away earlier this year in another state, and my siblings and I are trying to wrap up the last of the financial outstanding items. She died in mid February. We had paid for room and board and caregiving fees for that entire month to the small, family-run group care home where she had lived since the fall. She was very happy living there, and they took good care of her.

The room and board and caregiving charge totaled over $10,000 per month. I'm reading through the contract now, to try and determine if her estate should have received a refund of any amount, for the days her room she was no longer there. It's not clear to me, because on the one hand it mentions 30 days notice, and on the other hand it talks about refunds being owed for days when neither a resident nor their belongings are in a room. They had waived the deposit requirement when she moved in, so that part is not applicable. Any lawyers or others on here who can parse this language?

"A. Termination by Resident and Refund Policy
The Resident may terminate this agreement at any time, regardless of cause, by giving the Facility 30 (thirty) days advance notice in writing. This notice is deemed to have been given automatically on the date of the Resident’s death.
If the Resident dies or is hospitalized and then transferred to another facility for more appropriate care, and does not return to the Facility, then the Facility shall comply with the following refund requirements:
1. The Facility shall refund any deposit or charges already paid, less the Facility’s per diem rate for the days the Resident actually resided or reserved (when permitted) or retained a bed; as well as personal belongings; in the Facility. In an effort to mitigate the number of days that the Resident is considered to have retained a bed and personal belongings, the Facility will make reasonable efforts to store personal items that are left at the Facility following a transfer when specifically requested in writing by the Resident or the Resident’s Representative.
2. In addition to the amount retained under subparagraph 1, the Facility may retain an additional amount to cover its reasonable, actual expenses incurred as a result of the Resident’s move, not to exceed 14 (fourteen) days per diem charges. The Facility may not retain this additional amount if the Resident has given the written 30 (thirty) days advance notice.
The Facility shall refund any amount due to the Resident or his or her legal representative, less charges for damage beyond normal and reasonably foreseeable wear and tear caused by the Resident, within 30 (thirty) days of the Resident’s death, discharge, or transfer. The Facility shall provide to the Resident or the Resident’s legal representative an explanation of any charges retained by the Facility. "

It feels a little awkward to ask the care home itself (I assume they don't believe they owe us anything, given that more than 30 days has passed and we haven't received any refund). The care home's owner offered to pack up and mail her personal items to the family (it was a handful of boxes), which cost them some time and money. It took a few weeks to receive the boxes, but I know that her room was emptied of these things within just a few days of her death, and they were stored elsewhere in the house.

FWIW, it was a quick-turnaround, overnight emergency placement when she moved in in the fall, which they handled very well. We're very grateful to them for all that, and they would have also had to pay a commission to the placement agency that connected us with them, so personally, I'm partly inclined to just let it go even if they do technically owe her estate a refund.