Anonymous wrote:You keep on seeing news articles about Americans being inspired by what's happening in Ukraine and going over there to help the 'war effort' - and i can't help but wondering what % of these people are associated with documented white nationalist/neo-nazi efforts.

I'll try to find it but there was an article in an MSM outlet over the last few days (NYT or New Yorker maybe) that discussed how the start of this war has been a pull factor for some neo-nazi/WS groups interested in Ukraine...although it didn't make a specific tie to other stories about Americans wanting to go there to help fight.

Found the article. It was WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

It's actually from March 14 so not 'last few days' but i think i only read it a couple of days ago.

You keep on seeing news articles about Americans being inspired by what's happening in Ukraine and going over there to help the 'war effort' - and i can't help but wondering what % of these people are associated with documented white nationalist/neo-nazi efforts.

I'll try to find it but there was an article in an MSM outlet over the last few days (NYT or New Yorker maybe) that discussed how the start of this war has been a pull factor for some neo-nazi/WS groups interested in Ukraine...although it didn't make a specific tie to other stories about Americans wanting to go there to help fight.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

So.. you mean they are "good" nazis?

DP. No, no one is saying that. Their relative prominence and strength has been diminishing as the army was being strengthened over the past years since 2014. But yes, back in March - May 2014 (February 2014 yanukovych ran away with contents of Ukraine’s treasury, russia annexed crimea and invaded donbas, while trying similar scenarios in odesa, Kharkiv, and a few other cities), Volunteer battalions including azov were crucial in fighting russia.

Why were they so crucial? Other Ukrainians weren't as enthusiastic to fight Russia? Just trying to understand why their involvement was so important in 2014. It's pretty clear Putin is taking advantage of this fact and it serves his propaganda

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

So.. you mean they are "good" nazis?

DP. No, no one is saying that. Their relative prominence and strength has been diminishing as the army was being strengthened over the past years since 2014. But yes, back in March - May 2014 (February 2014 yanukovych ran away with contents of Ukraine’s treasury, russia annexed crimea and invaded donbas, while trying similar scenarios in odesa, Kharkiv, and a few other cities), Volunteer battalions including azov were crucial in fighting russia.

I saw a documentary by PBS "The battle for Ukraine" that was trying to be unbiased, definitely NOT pro-Russian, but it did have a bit on the far-right movement in Ukraine. One of the boys shown was wearing a face of Stepan Bandera on his tshirt and the commentator mentioned that for some far right Ukrainians Bandera is a national hero. If you google the info on this character even if you know nothing you will find a lot of disturbing info that would make Genghis Khan blush in terms of atrocities they committed during the WW2 when some Ukrainian far right faction joined German nazis and did all the dirty work for them exterminating Poles and Jews in Ukraine. It's a complicated issue and not one sided, there isn't a right way or wrong way to look at it, especially in light of modern politics, other than admit that no country in the world has a perfect history and try to be respectful of those whose opinions may not be the cheerleading involvement of Azov and other nazi groups in the Ukrainian army even if they fight against their country's invader.

Anonymous wrote:PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

So.. you mean they are "good" nazis?

Anonymous wrote:PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

This.

PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

So the Azov Battalion and Ukraine's rising neo Nazi problem and human rights abuses is something that has been discussed for years . It's not being openly discussed now because to do so is seen as not supporting Ukraine .

News organizations including those that DCUm respects have previously reported on this.
Here's just a sampling.

Please know this is not to say Putin is justified or that we shouldn't offer some sort of help to Ukrainians particularly the children and women. It's just to paint a fuller picture of what is going on.
I personally try to take all elements into consideration and not just stick to whatever supports my feelings on a matter.

Ukraine, Zelensky, and the Azov Battalion

1.https://www.unian.info/politics/10521105-zelensky-on-bandera-ukrainians-should-also-praise-modern-day-heroes.html

2.https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/

3.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

4.https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis

5 https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-far-right-menace-radical-militants-ultranationalists/

6.https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/german-tv-shows-nazi-symbols-helmets-ukraine-soldiers-n198961

7.https://www.vox.com/2015/2/20/8072643/ukraine-volunteer-battalion-danger

8.https://youtu.be/BKnFSzMefIY

9.https://youtu.be/fy910FG46C4

10.https://youtu.be/CpV16BQfbrQ


I sadly feel I have to offer the disclaimer of I'm not Pro Putin. Putin is not a good man, Russia under Putin is guilty of the same or similar white supremacist activities.

I just think it's important we have all the information and not information that is filtered because people are afraid of being accused of being anti democracy or pro Putin. Know your allies and know your enemies.

Anonymous wrote:There’s a small component of white supremacists and neo-Nazis in our military too, OP. It doesn’t mean that the entire force is that way.

You realize what a stupid argument this is, right?.

The Nazis in our military are not government supported

The Nazis problem in Ukraine as well as much of E. Europe has been well documented and well reported on.

It's become fashionable to not acknowledge this because of Putin's lies.

But it's a big issue in Ukraine there are even training camps for children and given our own problem with riding white supremacy and neo Nazi groups here in the States it would be foolish to ignore this especially when we plan on taking in refugees.

Americans have big hearts but more than once we have been bitten by ignoring an issue in a country while saving them.

There’s a small component of white supremacists and neo-Nazis in our military too, OP. It doesn’t mean that the entire force is that way.

jsteele wrote:There are a ton of articles in the mainstream media about the Azov battalion.

Here is the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

Here is CBS News:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-azov-battalion-putin-premise-war-vs-nazis/

It's brought up in the NPR story:

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084729572/the-russian-ukraine-conflict-could-strengthen-neo-fascist-groups-in-both-countri

Here is the New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/world/europe/militias-russia-ukraine.html

You linked to the Guardian.

Clearly it is acknowledged.

Next question?

Thanks. The CBS article was just what I wanted. I’m a little wary of Wikipedia right now with Russia cyber offensive, it could be compromised.

There are a ton of articles in the mainstream media about the Azov battalion.

Here is the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

Here is CBS News:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-azov-battalion-putin-premise-war-vs-nazis/

It's brought up in the NPR story:

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084729572/the-russian-ukraine-conflict-could-strengthen-neo-fascist-groups-in-both-countri

Here is the New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/world/europe/militias-russia-ukraine.html

You linked to the Guardian.

Clearly it is acknowledged.

Next question?

I believe Putin is generally FOS. Ukraine President is not a Nazi, government is not Nazi.

But there is a fielded group in the National guard, the Azov, which I think Putin has blown up as a bogey man.

Why is that sliver of Naziism not acknowledged in the press when refuting the overall “Putin fighting Nazis” absurdity? It weakens the defense the ignore the reality, so curious why that is?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis