We love the AAP Center at Forest Edge. It has long had a reputation as one of the best in the county. We chose the Center over our LLIV program when my child entered third grade, so I don't have any direct experience with a LLIV program, but I have spoken to parents from Forestville and Aldrin who switched to Forest Edge after third or fourth grade because they felt the LLIV program was not meeting the needs of their gifted children.

For a wealth of information on gifted issues, including the question of LLIV vs. AAP Center, join the FCAG (Farifax County Association for the Gifted) Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FCAG/, and check out www.fcag.org. I copied and pasted below two posts addressing this topic, but there are many more:

Re: local level IV vs. "center" school

I believe (and I think the general consensus on this board is) that placement at
a center provides two things more reliably than Level IV.

First, it seems that centers more reliably recognize and support the unique
needs of highly gifted students. While some Level IV classrooms are excellent,
they seem more subject to the attitudes and prejudices of the school leadership
and teachers, which is why so many parents request information about specific
programs at specific schools on this board. If you have not experienced it
already, you will come to see that in our culture of "everyone is special" there
are many people, including educators, who do not appropriately value the natural
resource of gifted intellect, and moreover, have an attitude that implies
"gifted kids already have an unfair advantage and do not merit special
treatment." These same people are often oblivious to the extraordinary social
and emotional challenges that can accompany giftedness, and worse, resist
anything outside the cookie-cutter norm to accommodate their learning needs.
Where school leadership or individual teachers hold these attitudes, gifted
students are less likely to encounter an environment that will meet their
social, emotional and learning needs.

Second, at Level IV there is a higher likelihood that the gifted classroom will
reflect a window on the lower end of the "gifted" bell curve. Because placement
is allowed that is not based on testing (and I am not personally against this
practice at local Level IV), the overall classroom environment is sometimes
experienced as a little less rigorous than at a Center school. So some of your
decision could be based on where your child falls on the gifted scale. A truly
profoundly gifted student will almost certainly have a better chance of "fitting
in" and being challenged at a center (though many are not even appropriately
served in that environment!). However, as always, that rule of thumb is
sometimes nullified by the skill, knowledge, effort, and attitudes of the
individual teachers in those classrooms.

There are many strong opinions expressed on this board regarding the advantages
and disadvantages of gifted students being with intellectual peers during their
entire school day. Our personal experience as GT adults with 3 GT kids is that
true GT individuals will spend their entire lives "fittting in" socially, and
that having a safe place when one is developing and growing that validates one's
innate curiosity about the world (rather than ignoring and suppressing it) is
critical to the GT child's social and emotional growth and health, as well as
their intellectual growth. If you want my full rant on the subject read my email
with the subject "Gifted is a euphemism for abnormal" in the forum archives.



--- In FCAG@yahoogroups.com, "yangyunhua" <yangyunhua@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> My kid just got accepted to the county's advanced program level IV, arising
3rd grader. His base school also provides a level IV program. So he can either
choose to stay in his base school or he can go the center school which is
Sunrise Valley in Reston.
> This is my eldest kid, and I don't have any knowledge or experience with
either his base school level IV program or the Sunrise Valley center program.
His base school is a very good one in Vienna that all of us feel quite satisfied
with so far. We find it very difficult to decide which option to go.
> Can someone kindly share any thoughts on local level IV vs. the center? Will
my kid learn more if I send him to the Sunrise Valley center?

Re: local level IV vs. "center" school

Congratulations!

Generally speaking, the "centers" are more challenging than the Local Level IV
schools. Although both use the same curriculum, the center classes usually go
through the material more quickly and in greater depth than a Local Level IV
class. You should also know that a teacher/principal can put anyone in a Local
Level IV class even if they did not go through the formal AAP Center admissions
process. So, it all depends on the discretion of the teacher and motivation and
abilities of the students in a particular class.

Typically, roughly the top 15% of the county are invited to the "AAP/GT
centers." You know your child best. If you think your child is in the top 5%,
the center may be the right place for him/her. If you were surprised your child
got in or if you think he/she is more in the top 10-15%, you might want to keep
the child in the base school. The kids that are in the top 10-15% might be
stressed out trying to keep up with a faster-paced class. You don't want to be
in the position where you are hiring tutors for $90/hour for a child to keep up
with his peers and feeling lousy about himself.

One thing I liked about our AAP center is that the parents were very active in
our school and volunteered to coach academic extracurricular teams - math team,
science olympiad, FIRST LEGO League Robotics, chess, Rubik's Cube Competitions,
etc. The availability of these activities varies tremendously by school since
it's based on the parents' interests and time. Finding enough parents and kids
interested in these "geeky" activities might be hard to find in a Local Level IV
school. If your kid doesn't like those activities, then maybe it won't matter
so much for you.

Lastly, remember that no decision is definite. Once you are in the AAP center
program, you can go in and out of the center/base school from one year to the
next. You can try one school and if it doesn't work out, switch mid-year or
next year to the other program.

Good luck!

This is exactly my fear! So many non level IV kids at the local center orientation. What's up with that? I thought principal designates were allocated after the center eligible kids elections are made.

We were on the exact same boat last year, stayed with local level IV not satisfied though as the focus would be on the non level IV kids, Our DD was not challenged enough in third grade, so we are changing to Forest Edge for 4th grade.

When you attend the orientations/open houses for both options, you can find out some specifics to help you decide.

Check the class sizes. The AAP classes at Forest Edge are packed. General Ed have been smaller recently. That may make a difference to you.

Any updates on Forest Edge since 2010? Since Aldrin, Forestville, and Armstrong now all have local level iv service, has AAP enrollment at Forest Edge declined? Not sure if we should uproot our DC to a new school if more and more kids are choosing to stay and get local level iv at their base school. Is going to a center school really that much better academically?

PP is right. Donalan doesn't know what he/she is talking about. He/she needs to get the facts straight and stop trying to scare people away from LLIV.

The above is not accurate. LLIV is a full-time AAP classroom.

Donalan posted this same thing yesterday on the thread re cutoff scores, and several posters corrected it and offered clarification. Why someone who doesn't fully understand the AAP program or application process would continue posting inaccurate info is a mystery, but see p. 21 of the "cutoff scores" thread for more info on the distinctions between base schools offering LLIV and the Centers.

Meet with your AAP representative and discuss the differences in level IV services offered at your home school vs. a Level IV AAP center. In our case some major differences were:

1. Level IV Center School offers full day Level IV curriculum and instruction 5 days a week; Home School would offer 1 class in a trailer 1 day a week with minor enhancements to standard curriculum.

2. Level IV Center School offers teachers specializing in gifted students; Home School shares 1 AA teacher with several other schools (she is at Home School only a few days each month).

3. Level IV Center School offers group learning among AAP students every day; Home School offers limited or no peer group learning among AAP students.

4. Level IV Center School offers compacted math; Home School does not have the resources to offer compacted math at this time.


At the moment transportation funds for AAP students have been cut. That means that if your child has qualified for Level IV services and your home school offers any Level IV services he will not be bussed to the Center school.

If you have an AAP student and want them bussed to a Level IV center you should contact your school board representative asap and tell them you want aap transportation funding (~$208,000) refunded.

My son received his acceptance to the center at Forest Edge yesterday. We also have a local level four at our base school - Armstrong. This is all new to me - he is my oldest child. Any thoughts about Forest Edge vs. Armstrong?