Wow. Many of you seem really out of touch. Most UMC people don't even send their kids to private school. $200k+ annual income can be UMC if you bought you home in this area 10+ years ago. As long as your housing cost isn't crazy you can save easily and have plenty of disposable income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of income, this can be determined with actual data. For the DC area, you get bumped out of middle with $200,000 gross HHI for a family of 4:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Net worth gets far more complicated, especially if it's tied up in your housing equity.

A family of 4 making 200k can't afford the staples of a UMC life in this area- private school being the most obvious

I agree, generally. But that doesn't mean the family making $200k isn't in the upper quartile of income in the region. It just means they can't afford private school.

If private school tuition for multiple kids is generally considered affordable only for the top 5% of income earners (I'm making that number up), that certainly doesn't make people at 6%, 7%, 8% middle class.

+1, and similar things can be said about single-family home ownership. We are rapidly getting to a point in DC where you will not be able to buy a SFH with 200k HHI. We are already at the point where you can't buy in a desirable school boundary on that HHI. But that doesn't make 200k middle class.

If you've ever lived in NYC, it's instructive. Housing and education are so expensive there, and rich people there are SO rich, that there are lots of people in NYC living what appear to be middle class lives (renting or buying tiny apartments in not-great neighborhood, kids in public schools and not always even great publics) but who have HHIs several multiples the median income in the US. They may feel middle class, but all it would take to magically become UMC would be making one or two different lifestyle choices. Like moving out of the city and having a slightly longer commute. Suddenly they could afford private Waldorf schools or a 4 bedroom house in a great school district. Their "middle classness" is just a condition of being in the city, but it doesn't translate to anywhere else, not even the suburbs of that same city.

~300 K to be solidly middle class.

$200,000 a year is UMC. Private schools aren't really a good guage because they are really expensive here. $45,000 a year is in the just plain rich price range.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of income, this can be determined with actual data. For the DC area, you get bumped out of middle with $200,000 gross HHI for a family of 4:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Net worth gets far more complicated, especially if it's tied up in your housing equity.

A family of 4 making 200k can't afford the staples of a UMC life in this area- private school being the most obvious

I agree, generally. But that doesn't mean the family making $200k isn't in the upper quartile of income in the region. It just means they can't afford private school.

If private school tuition for multiple kids is generally considered affordable only for the top 5% of income earners (I'm making that number up), that certainly doesn't make people at 6%, 7%, 8% middle class.

Anonymous wrote:In terms of income, this can be determined with actual data. For the DC area, you get bumped out of middle with $200,000 gross HHI for a family of 4:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Net worth gets far more complicated, especially if it's tied up in your housing equity.

A family of 4 making 200k can't afford the staples of a UMC life in this area- private school being the most obvious

Probably $1m in investable assets (not including home equity or 529 plans) for UMC and $10m in investible assets for UC.

In terms of income, this can be determined with actual data. For the DC area, you get bumped out of middle with $200,000 gross HHI for a family of 4:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Net worth gets far more complicated, especially if it's tied up in your housing equity.

How are you calculating net worth? How does home equity factor in? How do you factor in different kinds of debt (secured versus unsecured)? What about generational wealth that may be distributed in other ways (providing a family home in a good school district while adult kids save for down payment, or offering to pay for kid's private school education, etc.)?

People who are determined to consider themselves middle class regardless of their wealth and privilege will find lots of creative ways to do it. For both psychological and tax reasons.

What does this have to do with Relationships?

In DC and close in suburbs-300k to be UMC

Somewhere around 300 to 400k HHI in this area. I don't consider networth because the difference between UMC and UC is living off of salary vs assets

If so, what do you think that net worth would be?