Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:32     Subject: Re:More empathy for kids or spouse?
You are parenting your kids but not your husband, as it should be. Your husband doesn't need you to teach him to clean up messes, your kids do. I'd assume the kid messes are bigger, more disruptive and require repeated instruction, so obviously those would evoke more frustration than a coffee cup in the bathroom. I don't see where empathy enters into it. It feels like weird overthinking to me.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:30     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
I have empathy for my kids and my husband, sure. Differently, because they're different people.

But, kids are kids. They're learning and developing in ways very different than adults, because they're children. My expectations of them aren't the same as they are with my spouse because, again, they're children. It's not about putting my kids above my spouse, it's about realizing that *children* have different needs for many things and deserve to have those needs met by the parents who chose to have them.

I think it's completely unfair to rationalize yelling at your kids because they're kids. And I used to yell way more than I wanted with mine, in part because they were young and didn't listen but mostly because I was overwhelmed and couldn't keep it together. I work hard now on my own stuff and I also hold DH to high standards on that front. It's not okay to yell at kids or adults, really. At least, if you find yourself regularly raising your voice, it's important to look into why and then to do something about it.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:23     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On a thread yesterday someone mentioned how they had a lot more empathy for their kids than their spouse, which made me think about that all night. Other people agreed with that poster. I feel the exact opposite.

I'm a great spouse and a great mom, but I have unlimited empathy for dh and not so much empathy for my kids. I find myself faking it with my kids a lot. My dd especially is a lot more sensitive than dh and I, and I can't relate. I'm always hugging her, validating her feelings and asking her how it makes her feel, but yeah she gets upset over things that wouldn't bother me. I'd also never yell at dh for leaving a mess, but I'm constantly yelling at my kids or ordering them around (and I mean yelling in a productive way, not screaming or being angry). I'm teaching them how to clean, whereas for dh, I give him grace and just pick up after him. DH does it to me too. He's never asked me why the house is a mess or there's no dinner. Instead, he just asks me what I'd like to eat and he starts cooking. I've noticed that when it's bedlam and the kids are going crazy, we both step in on the other parent's side. It's us versus the kids.

So, who do you have more empathy for- dh or your kids?


This is bizarre.

You let your spouse off the hook for leaving messes around for long times yet you berate your kids for leaving a mess?

What do you think your kids are actually learning from their father or you? Actions will always speak louder than words. Even angry shouting or reminders.

Start an allowance system for your kids to get their habits up to speed.
Start executive functioning coaching for your spouse to get his habits better.


OP here. You've got me pegged wrong. DH and I both are making messes and also cleaning up each other's messes. Neither one of us is lazy or has bad habits. Is your house perfectly immaculate with small kids? Sheesh. If I see dh's coat laying out, I'll hang it in the coat closet. If dh finds my coffee mug in the bathroom, he'll carry it down. On and on. But for kids, we do try to make them clean up their messes so they learn how and also so they'll make less mess next time.

I already said I'm not screaming at my kids, but yelling sure. Like last night I yelled up that I needed them to come down and clean up the playroom before we read books. I would never tell dh that, he's an adult.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:16     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Empathy for the kids comes more easily. They are still learning, their need to explore and connect can create chaos from the perspective of an adult but it's part of their process.

I have to remind myself that adults still need to learn and make mistakes, that even the most mature and developed adult might have a child within when it comes to feeling hurt or unloved.


Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:11     Subject: Re:More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the quality of my empathy is different. Kids are new. They don't have perspective. If my kid is devastated about something seemingly trivial, I still have empathy because they are just figuring out how to handle stuff like disappointment, frustration, grief. I don't get impatient with those feelings because for them, that's a big deal and they are trying to figure out how to process it. We spend time talking about how we respond to things and what we can do to make hard things easier. I don't view the process of teaching my kids how to manage their emotions as separate from having empathy for them. I never just tell to get over something or that something is "no big deal", though I do sometimes explain that what feels like a big deal might be okay if we learn how to handle it.

With my DH, I have a lot of empathy for the reality of being an adult and a parent in this world we live in. Lots of empathy for feeling tired, for not always wanting to do his job or chores around the house or parenting. It come naturally because I feel that way too sometimes. But I have more limited empathy for him when he gets upset about something that I don't think matters. Like sometimes he will have these very strong reactions to something frustrating/disappointing in the news, or to inconveniences in our lives (like a neighbor being inconsiderate or the bad customer service) and I find myself not being able to listen to it for too long. It's like "yes, okay, I know this is annoying but it's also life and it's not going to change?"

Also, my kids are still very little and I think sometimes I have empathy fatigue after being with them, especially on one of those hard days where they are very disregulated and need a lot of support, and I don't always have a ton left for DH. That might seem unfair, I don't know. But again, they are new. They are just learning this stuff. I think on some level I think "You are a grownup, you need to figure some of this out on your own -- I can't do for you what I do for them."


This is well said. I'd add in that sometimes I don't think DH has enough empathy for DD (age 3) because he gets frustrated with her like she's an adult being obstinate instead of a new person figuring out the world. I do hit an empathy fatigue wall with her sometimes, but I feel like DH treats it more like she's a malfunctioning computer program - "I tried that technique you told me to do [exactly one time] and it didn't work, she's being a jerk" instead of being calm and rational with her. That's frustrating for me because I don't want to have to step in every time.


PP here and this made me laugh because I see this with my DH too! Though on the subject of empathy I do remind myself that part of the issue with DH is that the kids are much more loving towards me (and regularly say I am their favorite or they prefer me, unprompted) and I think that's hard on him. I guess it's not uncommon for little kids but DH is a very involved dad who is generally pretty patient with them so I think it's hard to hear that when I know he's working hard. I think that's why sometimes he gets fed up on frustrated.

But the difficult thing for me is that I know each time he gets frustrated and kind of give ups with them, it only reaffirms for them that they prefer me. He knows this, it's just hard. I get lots of affection and snuggles for my efforts right now, and he gets some but also a lot of "no, I want mommy." Not easy! I hope it balances out a bit as they get older, and I also hope he hangs in there because I can't do it on my own!
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:07     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does it have to be a contest?


OP here. No. I was genuinely curious because I'm sure DH would say me too, hands down. We picked each other and are together for life versus kids who you try to train up to good humans, but they leave after 18 years.


Totally disagree. Your kids are your blood and if you are close it will be for life. Then will come the grand-kids. Men have a shelf life due to divorce, or dying.

If you don't plan to be involved after their 18 then you really failed as a parent. They will feel the same.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 12:04     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:On a thread yesterday someone mentioned how they had a lot more empathy for their kids than their spouse, which made me think about that all night. Other people agreed with that poster. I feel the exact opposite.

I'm a great spouse and a great mom, but I have unlimited empathy for dh and not so much empathy for my kids. I find myself faking it with my kids a lot. My dd especially is a lot more sensitive than dh and I, and I can't relate. I'm always hugging her, validating her feelings and asking her how it makes her feel, but yeah she gets upset over things that wouldn't bother me. I'd also never yell at dh for leaving a mess, but I'm constantly yelling at my kids or ordering them around (and I mean yelling in a productive way, not screaming or being angry). I'm teaching them how to clean, whereas for dh, I give him grace and just pick up after him. DH does it to me too. He's never asked me why the house is a mess or there's no dinner. Instead, he just asks me what I'd like to eat and he starts cooking. I've noticed that when it's bedlam and the kids are going crazy, we both step in on the other parent's side. It's us versus the kids.

So, who do you have more empathy for- dh or your kids?


This is bizarre.

You let your spouse off the hook for leaving messes around for long times yet you berate your kids for leaving a mess?

What do you think your kids are actually learning from their father or you? Actions will always speak louder than words. Even angry shouting or reminders.

Start an allowance system for your kids to get their habits up to speed.
Start executive functioning coaching for your spouse to get his habits better.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 11:59     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:On a thread yesterday someone mentioned how they had a lot more empathy for their kids than their spouse, which made me think about that all night. Other people agreed with that poster. I feel the exact opposite.

I'm a great spouse and a great mom, but I have unlimited empathy for dh and not so much empathy for my kids. I find myself faking it with my kids a lot. My dd especially is a lot more sensitive than dh and I, and I can't relate. I'm always hugging her, validating her feelings and asking her how it makes her feel, but yeah she gets upset over things that wouldn't bother me. I'd also never yell at dh for leaving a mess, but I'm constantly yelling at my kids or ordering them around (and I mean yelling in a productive way, not screaming or being angry). I'm teaching them how to clean, whereas for dh, I give him grace and just pick up after him. DH does it to me too. He's never asked me why the house is a mess or there's no dinner. Instead, he just asks me what I'd like to eat and he starts cooking. I've noticed that when it's bedlam and the kids are going crazy, we both step in on the other parent's side. It's us versus the kids.

So, who do you have more empathy for- dh or your kids?


Well duh.

Brains and maturity are still developing through age 18-21!

Of course I have higher expectations for an actual adult than an adolescent or teen! And thus I have more empathy for them and take the time to teach or explain things and how to talk about them.

If I had to also do this to my spouse and they could not retain it time and time again, I would not be happy. It would come across as very rude, disrespectful and self centered if a non-disabled adult acted like a child or risk-taking teen or emotional angry puberty kid!
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 11:54     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
I am like you, OP. I am a warm, loving mother but I don't relate to the putting-kids-above-DH stuff
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 11:22     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Kids, for sure. I rarely have empathy for my spouse. But I'm sure that's a me problem.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 11:21     Subject: Re:More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:I think the quality of my empathy is different. Kids are new. They don't have perspective. If my kid is devastated about something seemingly trivial, I still have empathy because they are just figuring out how to handle stuff like disappointment, frustration, grief. I don't get impatient with those feelings because for them, that's a big deal and they are trying to figure out how to process it. We spend time talking about how we respond to things and what we can do to make hard things easier. I don't view the process of teaching my kids how to manage their emotions as separate from having empathy for them. I never just tell to get over something or that something is "no big deal", though I do sometimes explain that what feels like a big deal might be okay if we learn how to handle it.

With my DH, I have a lot of empathy for the reality of being an adult and a parent in this world we live in. Lots of empathy for feeling tired, for not always wanting to do his job or chores around the house or parenting. It come naturally because I feel that way too sometimes. But I have more limited empathy for him when he gets upset about something that I don't think matters. Like sometimes he will have these very strong reactions to something frustrating/disappointing in the news, or to inconveniences in our lives (like a neighbor being inconsiderate or the bad customer service) and I find myself not being able to listen to it for too long. It's like "yes, okay, I know this is annoying but it's also life and it's not going to change?"

Also, my kids are still very little and I think sometimes I have empathy fatigue after being with them, especially on one of those hard days where they are very disregulated and need a lot of support, and I don't always have a ton left for DH. That might seem unfair, I don't know. But again, they are new. They are just learning this stuff. I think on some level I think "You are a grownup, you need to figure some of this out on your own -- I can't do for you what I do for them."


This is well said. I'd add in that sometimes I don't think DH has enough empathy for DD (age 3) because he gets frustrated with her like she's an adult being obstinate instead of a new person figuring out the world. I do hit an empathy fatigue wall with her sometimes, but I feel like DH treats it more like she's a malfunctioning computer program - "I tried that technique you told me to do [exactly one time] and it didn't work, she's being a jerk" instead of being calm and rational with her. That's frustrating for me because I don't want to have to step in every time.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 11:15     Subject: Re:More empathy for kids or spouse?
I think the quality of my empathy is different. Kids are new. They don't have perspective. If my kid is devastated about something seemingly trivial, I still have empathy because they are just figuring out how to handle stuff like disappointment, frustration, grief. I don't get impatient with those feelings because for them, that's a big deal and they are trying to figure out how to process it. We spend time talking about how we respond to things and what we can do to make hard things easier. I don't view the process of teaching my kids how to manage their emotions as separate from having empathy for them. I never just tell to get over something or that something is "no big deal", though I do sometimes explain that what feels like a big deal might be okay if we learn how to handle it.

With my DH, I have a lot of empathy for the reality of being an adult and a parent in this world we live in. Lots of empathy for feeling tired, for not always wanting to do his job or chores around the house or parenting. It come naturally because I feel that way too sometimes. But I have more limited empathy for him when he gets upset about something that I don't think matters. Like sometimes he will have these very strong reactions to something frustrating/disappointing in the news, or to inconveniences in our lives (like a neighbor being inconsiderate or the bad customer service) and I find myself not being able to listen to it for too long. It's like "yes, okay, I know this is annoying but it's also life and it's not going to change?"

Also, my kids are still very little and I think sometimes I have empathy fatigue after being with them, especially on one of those hard days where they are very disregulated and need a lot of support, and I don't always have a ton left for DH. That might seem unfair, I don't know. But again, they are new. They are just learning this stuff. I think on some level I think "You are a grownup, you need to figure some of this out on your own -- I can't do for you what I do for them."
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 11:07     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Anonymous wrote:Does it have to be a contest?


OP here. No. I was genuinely curious because I'm sure DH would say me too, hands down. We picked each other and are together for life versus kids who you try to train up to good humans, but they leave after 18 years.
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 10:59     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
Does it have to be a contest?
Anonymous
Post 01/19/2022 10:54     Subject: More empathy for kids or spouse?
On a thread yesterday someone mentioned how they had a lot more empathy for their kids than their spouse, which made me think about that all night. Other people agreed with that poster. I feel the exact opposite.

I'm a great spouse and a great mom, but I have unlimited empathy for dh and not so much empathy for my kids. I find myself faking it with my kids a lot. My dd especially is a lot more sensitive than dh and I, and I can't relate. I'm always hugging her, validating her feelings and asking her how it makes her feel, but yeah she gets upset over things that wouldn't bother me. I'd also never yell at dh for leaving a mess, but I'm constantly yelling at my kids or ordering them around (and I mean yelling in a productive way, not screaming or being angry). I'm teaching them how to clean, whereas for dh, I give him grace and just pick up after him. DH does it to me too. He's never asked me why the house is a mess or there's no dinner. Instead, he just asks me what I'd like to eat and he starts cooking. I've noticed that when it's bedlam and the kids are going crazy, we both step in on the other parent's side. It's us versus the kids.

So, who do you have more empathy for- dh or your kids?