Anonymous
01/18/2022 11:26
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Daycare - zero, grandparent lives with us and provides free childcare
Commute - maybe $60/month on a metrocard, pretax? But that's going in to the office, which I don't do right now. zero.
Lunches out - probably $200/month. This is the big one. DH spends closer to $400/month, it's a mess.
Clothes - this is a wash. I spend on something either way, suits or workout clothes or "how do I have nothing medium-casual to wear to brunch?"
Coffee/breakfast - $50/month
Dry cleaning - zero
takeout - we order takeout 1-2/week either way
Parking - zero, bus commute
Cleaning service - I wouldn't drop this if I SAH, so it's a wash.
I know this is an eye opening exercise for some, but it's not for me. All that said, I still want to go to part time because I just don't want to work this much for the rest of my life. I just can't tell myself it's to save our family money, because in my case it wouldn't.
Commute - maybe $60/month on a metrocard, pretax? But that's going in to the office, which I don't do right now. zero.
Lunches out - probably $200/month. This is the big one. DH spends closer to $400/month, it's a mess.
Clothes - this is a wash. I spend on something either way, suits or workout clothes or "how do I have nothing medium-casual to wear to brunch?"
Coffee/breakfast - $50/month
Dry cleaning - zero
takeout - we order takeout 1-2/week either way
Parking - zero, bus commute
Cleaning service - I wouldn't drop this if I SAH, so it's a wash.
I know this is an eye opening exercise for some, but it's not for me. All that said, I still want to go to part time because I just don't want to work this much for the rest of my life. I just can't tell myself it's to save our family money, because in my case it wouldn't.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 11:25
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
First of all, daycare is an expense to be split between the husband's and the wife's salaries. It skews the cost of working if you attribute it to only one of the parents.
And the obvious answer is, if you can make big bucks, this analysis is easy. I personally wanted a career, and now that my children are either in college out of town or grown, it was a no brainer for me to have a career.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week) - only 50% attributable to one parent
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100 - same if you are SAH and running kids around to activities, etc.
Parking - $120 - at my office, parking is free
Cleaning Services - $400 - I had a housecleaner before I got married and had kids, so I would pay this even if I were SAH
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc) - way low for me. I spend between $2,000 and $3,000 a year on professional attire.
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80 - do you mean $80 more than SAHMs spend on lunches?
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30 - in my case, I eat at home, so zero
Takeout - $200 Don't SAHMs get takeout too?
And the obvious answer is, if you can make big bucks, this analysis is easy. I personally wanted a career, and now that my children are either in college out of town or grown, it was a no brainer for me to have a career.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week) - only 50% attributable to one parent
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100 - same if you are SAH and running kids around to activities, etc.
Parking - $120 - at my office, parking is free
Cleaning Services - $400 - I had a housecleaner before I got married and had kids, so I would pay this even if I were SAH
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc) - way low for me. I spend between $2,000 and $3,000 a year on professional attire.
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80 - do you mean $80 more than SAHMs spend on lunches?
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30 - in my case, I eat at home, so zero
Takeout - $200 Don't SAHMs get takeout too?
Anonymous
01/18/2022 11:20
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Anonymous wrote:For me part of the calculation was in opportunity costs.
I don’t view childcare while I’m working as a cost of MY job. It’s just a necessity and my partner and I both need it. What I resented was paying for childcare while I commuted, or the higher costs of house cleaning and food because my work’s hours made it hard for us to clean our own house or cook meals as often as I’d like. And then of course losing time with my child while I’m commuting made me frustrated.
I wound up leaving my WOH job when DC was a baby because those costs bothered me a lot and my employer was not interested in a PT or WFH arrangement that would have lowered those costs. I stayed home for about 6 months (on top of the mat leave I’d already taken), and then found a PT job working from home. I loved that I could just pay for childcare when I was working and when I wasn’t I could be with my kid— no commute, no work happy hours, not lunch at work, etc. And it also freed up time for taking care of the house, grocery shopping, and cooking. Plus, yes, i didn’t need to spend as much on clothes or dry cleaning or makeup because I was WFH.
Now my kid is older and I’m still WFH, though FT. I think I could go in person at this point without feeling like it was costing me so much— childcare for older kids is less expensive, it’s easier to meal prep and keep a house clean when your kids are older and don’t require such intensive care.
So I think most of these costs fall heaviest on parents (and especially moms) of very young kids. We should have more working options for women in this position to WFH and go part time, without career penalties. It’s actually pretty insane what we ask of moms when you think about it. The idea you can have a baby and be expected to operate at work as though you don’t have a tiny creature requiring around the clock care is insane.
I completely agree with this. Due to life circumstances I had my kids really close together (<18 month gap) and the three years I spent trying to hold it down at a billable hour consulting job while pregnant, with a newborn and then a newborn + toddler, constantly sick and dangerously sleep deprived, while paying $4k/mo for daycare alone... I was not okay. My PCP started prescribing me psychoactive drugs that probably weren't technically indicated, out of concern for my and my children's physical safety. If at ANY POINT anyone in the consulting firm had sat me down and said, "your job will still be here if you want to take some time off", I would have taken them up on it so fast. But I was absolutely terrified that once I got off the career ladder, the gap in the resume would lock me out of it forever. And I can't say that worry was unfounded, given all the articles coming out about the proliferation of automated resume screening software making it literally impossible for moms to get back in the workforce after taking more than 6 months away.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 11:10
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
It's not costing me much because I've been working from home for a while.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 11:07
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
This seems like an outdated way of looking at things.
Look, in this area there are a lot of women who get grad degrees and have years of professional work experience by the time they have kids. I had kids in my early 30s, in a meh career/not "big job" and it always made financial sense for me to work. Sure, those first few years I was only netting a little bit. But now, I'm mid 40s, 2 kids are in school and don't require childcare, and I'm making $160K a year plus good retirement matching. By the time I retire lets say at 65, I'll have earned low millions by staying in the workforce.
The short term costs are just for a few years, mainly daycare. And I agree with others - I get Starbucks all the time and I WFH, I still buy clothes. And you'd leave the house for lunches and activities and coffees etc. if you stayed home with kids. And most kids are in preschool so that is a cost.
Look, in this area there are a lot of women who get grad degrees and have years of professional work experience by the time they have kids. I had kids in my early 30s, in a meh career/not "big job" and it always made financial sense for me to work. Sure, those first few years I was only netting a little bit. But now, I'm mid 40s, 2 kids are in school and don't require childcare, and I'm making $160K a year plus good retirement matching. By the time I retire lets say at 65, I'll have earned low millions by staying in the workforce.
The short term costs are just for a few years, mainly daycare. And I agree with others - I get Starbucks all the time and I WFH, I still buy clothes. And you'd leave the house for lunches and activities and coffees etc. if you stayed home with kids. And most kids are in preschool so that is a cost.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:52
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
For us, our lifestyle, realtionship, and mental health are dramatically better when one of us is home. That is priceless!
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:51
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
I also think SAHP sometimes think they will never spend on convenience, but they often spend more on 'needing to get out of the house' than WOHP. I think people should work/stay at home because of what they want for their family but it is almost always financially better to work.
Yes, this. I knew so many SAHP who got very expensive gym memberships and "classes" at the gym or elsewhere that they refused to call daycare but were in fact daycare. There is NOTHING wrong with that but it's never zero cost to stay at home.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:49
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Don't forget compound interest for retirement contributions made while working - that is a negative cost. I.e., a gain.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:42
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Have you ever calculated how much it costs to work?
I was chatting with a friend who lives in the NYC area about how much it costs her to work (suburban train, after school care etc etc). While SAHM is not an option for them, she has a hard time accepting how much it costs her to work.
It got me thinking....how much do a spend to WOHM? (Not an argument on the long-term financial security, retirement benefits or earning potential....just a budgeting/expenses question).
Me? I estimated some average monthly costs I can attribute to WOHM.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week)
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100
Parking - $120
Cleaning Services - $400
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc)
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30
Takeout - $200
Yikes!
Me, also in NYC and assuming before Covid.
Daycare - zero. It enables my husband to work since he has never considered staying home, so comes out if his salary.
Commute - $120, I think that's what the metrocard cost back then
Lunches - $160
Clothing/Dry cleaning - zero. My office is on the casual side, so I pretty much wore the same clothes I would be wearing anyway.
Convenience - various things I threw money at because I did not have time - $200
So, not that much overall.
I also think SAHP sometimes think they will never spend on convenience, but they often spend more on 'needing to get out of the house' than WOHP. I think people should work/stay at home because of what they want for their family but it is almost always financially better to work.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:22
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever calculated how much it costs to work?
I was chatting with a friend who lives in the NYC area about how much it costs her to work (suburban train, after school care etc etc). While SAHM is not an option for them, she has a hard time accepting how much it costs her to work.
It got me thinking....how much do a spend to WOHM? (Not an argument on the long-term financial security, retirement benefits or earning potential....just a budgeting/expenses question).
Me? I estimated some average monthly costs I can attribute to WOHM.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week)
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100
Parking - $120
Cleaning Services - $400
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc)
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30
Takeout - $200
Yikes!
Me, also in NYC and assuming before Covid.
Daycare - zero. It enables my husband to work since he has never considered staying home, so comes out if his salary.
Commute - $120, I think that's what the metrocard cost back then
Lunches - $160
Clothing/Dry cleaning - zero. My office is on the casual side, so I pretty much wore the same clothes I would be wearing anyway.
Convenience - various things I threw money at because I did not have time - $200
So, not that much overall.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:22
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
My net salary > daycare costs, which to me is the main "cost" of working outside the home, but even if it exceeded them, I'd view the outlay as a necessary investment in my career (and mental health). But I'll play.
(This is assuming normal office work, not WFH/hybrid which I'm currently doing.)
Daycare: $1650/mo
Commute: $0. Bike expenses/Metro commuting reimbursed by employer, and I never go above the monthly cap. I never drive to work.
Dry cleaning: $30/mo max
Lunches: $70/mo max. In normal times, I do a few working lunches (expensed or catered) and mostly make my own lunch, which saves a lot.
Coffees: $20/mo. I mostly bring my own homemade coffee, drink the complimentary office coffee or expense working coffee get-togethers, but I indulge in an occasional Starbucks run.
I think that's it, really.
(This is assuming normal office work, not WFH/hybrid which I'm currently doing.)
Daycare: $1650/mo
Commute: $0. Bike expenses/Metro commuting reimbursed by employer, and I never go above the monthly cap. I never drive to work.
Dry cleaning: $30/mo max
Lunches: $70/mo max. In normal times, I do a few working lunches (expensed or catered) and mostly make my own lunch, which saves a lot.
Coffees: $20/mo. I mostly bring my own homemade coffee, drink the complimentary office coffee or expense working coffee get-togethers, but I indulge in an occasional Starbucks run.
I think that's it, really.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:22
Subject: Re:the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
For me part of the calculation was in opportunity costs.
I don’t view childcare while I’m working as a cost of MY job. It’s just a necessity and my partner and I both need it. What I resented was paying for childcare while I commuted, or the higher costs of house cleaning and food because my work’s hours made it hard for us to clean our own house or cook meals as often as I’d like. And then of course losing time with my child while I’m commuting made me frustrated.
I wound up leaving my WOH job when DC was a baby because those costs bothered me a lot and my employer was not interested in a PT or WFH arrangement that would have lowered those costs. I stayed home for about 6 months (on top of the mat leave I’d already taken), and then found a PT job working from home. I loved that I could just pay for childcare when I was working and when I wasn’t I could be with my kid— no commute, no work happy hours, not lunch at work, etc. And it also freed up time for taking care of the house, grocery shopping, and cooking. Plus, yes, i didn’t need to spend as much on clothes or dry cleaning or makeup because I was WFH.
Now my kid is older and I’m still WFH, though FT. I think I could go in person at this point without feeling like it was costing me so much— childcare for older kids is less expensive, it’s easier to meal prep and keep a house clean when your kids are older and don’t require such intensive care.
So I think most of these costs fall heaviest on parents (and especially moms) of very young kids. We should have more working options for women in this position to WFH and go part time, without career penalties. It’s actually pretty insane what we ask of moms when you think about it. The idea you can have a baby and be expected to operate at work as though you don’t have a tiny creature requiring around the clock care is insane.
I don’t view childcare while I’m working as a cost of MY job. It’s just a necessity and my partner and I both need it. What I resented was paying for childcare while I commuted, or the higher costs of house cleaning and food because my work’s hours made it hard for us to clean our own house or cook meals as often as I’d like. And then of course losing time with my child while I’m commuting made me frustrated.
I wound up leaving my WOH job when DC was a baby because those costs bothered me a lot and my employer was not interested in a PT or WFH arrangement that would have lowered those costs. I stayed home for about 6 months (on top of the mat leave I’d already taken), and then found a PT job working from home. I loved that I could just pay for childcare when I was working and when I wasn’t I could be with my kid— no commute, no work happy hours, not lunch at work, etc. And it also freed up time for taking care of the house, grocery shopping, and cooking. Plus, yes, i didn’t need to spend as much on clothes or dry cleaning or makeup because I was WFH.
Now my kid is older and I’m still WFH, though FT. I think I could go in person at this point without feeling like it was costing me so much— childcare for older kids is less expensive, it’s easier to meal prep and keep a house clean when your kids are older and don’t require such intensive care.
So I think most of these costs fall heaviest on parents (and especially moms) of very young kids. We should have more working options for women in this position to WFH and go part time, without career penalties. It’s actually pretty insane what we ask of moms when you think about it. The idea you can have a baby and be expected to operate at work as though you don’t have a tiny creature requiring around the clock care is insane.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:17
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever calculated how much it costs to work?
I was chatting with a friend who lives in the NYC area about how much it costs her to work (suburban train, after school care etc etc). While SAHM is not an option for them, she has a hard time accepting how much it costs her to work.
It got me thinking....how much do a spend to WOHM? (Not an argument on the long-term financial security, retirement benefits or earning potential....just a budgeting/expenses question).
Me? I estimated some average monthly costs I can attribute to WOHM.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week)
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100
Parking - $120
Cleaning Services - $400
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc)
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30
Takeout - $200
Yikes!
Mine was similar (although from lunch and takeout you need to remove cost of eating home which is not zero, and you would probably end up treating yourself to coffee anyway).
It is an interesting exercise but you can’t do it in a vacuum and need to compare to cost of SAHM:
- you would still drive to activities so car cost not zero
- you would buy clothes, although much cheaper athlesure type
- you would probably end up signing up your kids to stuff (mom and baby yoga), and later on do more activities / more expensive activities. I see that with telecommuting already, because I have a more flexible schedule and kids have been at home a long time, I switched the cheaper basic aftercare for more after school interesting activities (gymnastics, breakdance class, art and theater whatever.. and it adds up fast)
- you may end up buying more stuff (more time at home and with your kids = more impulse buy for the next thing that will improve family life at home)
And obviously the biggest cost that you already mentioned, beyond present lost of income : retirement and future loss of incomes when it takes time to get fully back into job market
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:16
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Huh. Are you talking about working in the 1990’s? These days most people work for home.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 10:11
Subject: the cost of working - SAHM vs WOHM
Have you ever calculated how much it costs to work?
I was chatting with a friend who lives in the NYC area about how much it costs her to work (suburban train, after school care etc etc). While SAHM is not an option for them, she has a hard time accepting how much it costs her to work.
It got me thinking....how much do a spend to WOHM? (Not an argument on the long-term financial security, retirement benefits or earning potential....just a budgeting/expenses question).
Me? I estimated some average monthly costs I can attribute to WOHM.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week)
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100
Parking - $120
Cleaning Services - $400
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc)
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30
Takeout - $200
Yikes!
I was chatting with a friend who lives in the NYC area about how much it costs her to work (suburban train, after school care etc etc). While SAHM is not an option for them, she has a hard time accepting how much it costs her to work.
It got me thinking....how much do a spend to WOHM? (Not an argument on the long-term financial security, retirement benefits or earning potential....just a budgeting/expenses question).
Me? I estimated some average monthly costs I can attribute to WOHM.
Daycare - $3300 (though part of that is preschool I would have likely had to pay for, at least a few days a week)
Commute - Gas, wear and tear (?) - $100
Parking - $120
Cleaning Services - $400
Clothing - $200 (suits, dress shoes etc)
Dry Cleaning - $100
Lunches - $80
Coffees/Breakfast on the Run - $30
Takeout - $200
Yikes!