Anonymous wrote:Gender dysphoria occurs because the sex assigned at birth doesn’t match their gender identity. Everyone needs to be able to express who they are to feel happy and content.

/mom of a trans kid

The challenge I see with many kids is that they don’t really know whether their feelings of not fitting into their gender are really feelings of trans, or just not liking the gender stereotypes they’re presented with. Especially true for those teen girls who suddenly decide as soon as they start developing breasts and receiving uncomfortable sexual attention that they don’t like being stereotypical women. Hard for them to know whether that means they are really trans, or instead just want to be a non-stereotypical woman (which lacks a clear language and image, and so is hard for teens to grasp).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Good post PP. Let’s also acknowledge that trans activists and allies are confusingly inconsistent about lots of their claims. Sometimes people insist that being trans is not a choice, and everyone is simply “born that way,” while other times people say that gender is fluid for everyone and changes over a lifetime. I don’t fault people for being inconsistent in describing themselves or their changing perspective. I do find it obnoxious gatekeeping when people criticize others without acknowledging that inconsistency.

This is because transgender used to mean a specific thing. That is, a binary person that feels like they were born the wrong sex. Inside, they don’t feel comfortable and want to be the opposite gender than the one assigned at birth. I saw a YouTube video of a trans woman that said she thought all boys wanted to be girls when she was little and it was just something boys had to deal with. Every birthday when she blew out her candles, she wished to be turned into a girl. Now as an adult she is transitioning. So that’s still binary gender. Now trans is being used as an umbrella term to include a lot of other people like enbies, gender fluid, and other non binary people. So that may be the reason for the confusion and strange gatekeeping. When someone says they are trans (like the person I described) people assume either MTF or FTM but now that it’s become a more inclusive umbrella term, people really need to explain what they mean by trans. Which isn’t really something you’d think would be necessary but it is what it is. Most trans people are hesitant to gatekeep the term because of how difficult their lives are just being the way they are and they don’t want to make other people’s lives more difficult.

Agree that the language is imprecise and undergoing change, which adds to the complexity. Disagree about trans people being hesitant to gatekeep; in my experience, many are very quick to gatekeep. Perhaps it’s just that some people - whether trans or not - can be obnoxious know-it-alls who like to gatekeep because they like how it allows them to feel superior.

Gender dysphoria occurs because the sex assigned at birth doesn’t match their gender identity. Everyone needs to be able to express who they are to feel happy and content.

/mom of a trans kid

Here is a basic answer. Many people consider breasts to be a symbol of femininity. Imagine being born with breasts, while knowing you are a man. Every time you see them, feel them, have to buy clothes and bras, etc its a constant reminder. Its not about sexalilty or function of the breast. It is what it represents.

Anonymous wrote:What is gender?

I realize you’re being hyperbolic because you don’t think people should have bodily autonomy but…

either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.

What is gender?

Anonymous wrote:NP. Good post PP. Let’s also acknowledge that trans activists and allies are confusingly inconsistent about lots of their claims. Sometimes people insist that being trans is not a choice, and everyone is simply “born that way,” while other times people say that gender is fluid for everyone and changes over a lifetime. I don’t fault people for being inconsistent in describing themselves or their changing perspective. I do find it obnoxious gatekeeping when people criticize others without acknowledging that inconsistency.

This is because transgender used to mean a specific thing. That is, a binary person that feels like they were born the wrong sex. Inside, they don’t feel comfortable and want to be the opposite gender than the one assigned at birth. I saw a YouTube video of a trans woman that said she thought all boys wanted to be girls when she was little and it was just something boys had to deal with. Every birthday when she blew out her candles, she wished to be turned into a girl. Now as an adult she is transitioning. So that’s still binary gender. Now trans is being used as an umbrella term to include a lot of other people like enbies, gender fluid, and other non binary people. So that may be the reason for the confusion and strange gatekeeping. When someone says they are trans (like the person I described) people assume either MTF or FTM but now that it’s become a more inclusive umbrella term, people really need to explain what they mean by trans. Which isn’t really something you’d think would be necessary but it is what it is. Most trans people are hesitant to gatekeep the term because of how difficult their lives are just being the way they are and they don’t want to make other people’s lives more difficult.

NP. Good post PP. Let’s also acknowledge that trans activists and allies are confusingly inconsistent about lots of their claims. Sometimes people insist that being trans is not a choice, and everyone is simply “born that way,” while other times people say that gender is fluid for everyone and changes over a lifetime. I don’t fault people for being inconsistent in describing themselves or their changing perspective. I do find it obnoxious gatekeeping when people criticize others without acknowledging that inconsistency.

Hey OP, I hope this doesn't sound too pedantic, but here goes.

Most trans language stuff is an ongoing attempt to describe real people-- it's not something like physics or engineering where you start with solid theoretical principles that the real world examples are built from and follow. You're not wrong that the reality is a little more complicated.

When you talk about having it beaten into our heads that sex and gender are different, you're talking about a push to get trans awareness into the general public. That was also shaped by arguments against trans people being allowed to legally transition, or live publicly as their transitioned genders, rather than being dumped back into the legal/social categories of their birth sex.

The argument there was that it was impossible to change sex or gender-- "You can take whatever pills and have whatever surgery you want, but you were born [whatever] and you'll always be one, changing your sex isn't real, you will never be a [woman, man] and you shouldn't be able to live as one socially or legally." The best way to explain trans people in social terms and in the eyes of the law was to say that, yes, these people had a birth sex of M/F, but their gender identity was something different that wasn't defined by their body parts, chromosomes, or what they looked like when they were born.

When you get a little closer, it turns out that many and probably, statistically, most people want their sex and gender to match, and they want those things to match up in ways that follow cisgender M/F patterns: most men don't want breasts; most women do. Why? We don't really know yet, A lot of trans people feel like it's something neurological or biochemical (there have been some interesting studies around fetal androgen exposure and phantom limb stuff in adults) but the science isn't there yet.

So a more accurate thing to say would probably be something like, your birth sex doesn't determine your gender, but the majority of people want their sex and their gender to match up, whether that's through birth or medical means, although not all people feel this is necessary. There's still a wide spectrum of what physical changes trans people do or don't want. But the original "sex and gender are totally different" line was something that's true, but also only broadly true, and meant to get people who didn't understand how trans people could exist at all over that first basic road bump.

Not all transgender people want surgery, and few describe themselves as being in the wrong body (that's a fairly dated expression). If you keep that in mind, OP, I think it will be easier to see this as a "wide spectrum of different feelings about bodies" issue rather than something concrete you have to understand.

There's a difference between thinking of yourself as masculine or feminine (gender) and thinking of yourself as male or female (sex). That doesn't mean that they aren't related, however. Of someone feels that they were born with the wrong body, simply changing their gender presentation doesn't solve that issue

So you’d be cool with it if your “actual sex organs” didn’t match your gender? If you woke up tomorrow with different equipment you’d just roll with it?

I mean, I would. But I’m somewhat fluid and always have been. I think most people aren’t and are distressed by a mismatch. I don’t really get that but I believe it when people tell me it’s true.

Just because sex and gender are not the same thing does not mean they are unrelated.

Because people want their sex and gender to match.

So transgender people have often been described as feeling that they were born into the wrong body. I get that 100%.

Many of these people have sex reassignment surgery. I get that too. But, what does sex reassignment surgery have to do with gender? It’s been beat into our heads that sex and gender are two different things. That’s fine too. But changing your actual sex organs - what does that have to do with gender?

I’m admitting I need an education here.