We all need to consume less, period.

And personally, I can't buy my produce at the famers market because that would put me out $150 which is 75% of my weekly grocery bill as it is.

We need broad social changes in energy production and climate mitigation to address the problem of climate change. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference if I walk to CVS to get my toilet paper or have it delivered from Amazon.

As for the workers....it's not at all clear to me that delivery and warehouse workers have it worse than retail workers in a store. And nobody is forcing them to do this kind of work - these days, all kinds of employers are begging for workers.

I think going to the store was fine when mothers weren't working like they are today - I aint got time for that now.

I don't see how gas to get the store from me driving s any different than gas from the truck to get to me. ?????

My problem is that it really is impossible to get many items in the store. I live in NW DC and every Target or CVS or hardware store I can get to is total garbage and doesn't carry anything. There are zero art supply stores near me. Just recently I've needed rubber bands, baby shampoo, a specific kind of Raid, unscented wipes for school, folders for school, highlighter markers for school, kids masks, hair dye, compostable cups, batteries, and a potato peelers. None of these items can be found at the Targets or CVSs in NW.

Anonymous wrote:We order everything online. Groceries, diapers, cat litter, clothes, stuff for around the house, gifts, really everything.

However - we live in the city and don’t own a car.

Specifically as far as environmental degradation - it’s vastly better for the environment than driving everywhere. And in fact, the plethora of easy delivery options makes city living significantly easier and more manageable, and thus allows us a car free lifestyle.

Denser housing with way fewer cars and more delivery trucks is an environmental win. Delivery trucks with dozens of packages is much more efficient than dozens of people driving to Target individually.

Now - labor wise, this is a tougher call, as delivery drivers and warehouse workers are not adequately compensated, but that’s a different issue.

+1 There are many competing factors here — environmental/societal/etc both on the customer side and on the business side. I try to avoid ordering groceries and pharmacy stuff because I can and do easily walk there. But I buy clothes online because I would have to take transit to get to even a target and in store options can sometimes be very limited. The one thing I really wish is that DC had thrift stores you didn’t have to drive to. I’d love to get more used but it’s really hard for me where I live. I do try to use clothing exchanges etc when possible and just generally make sure not to buy things I don’t need. I get my produce exclusively from the farmer’s market so at least that cuts down on packaging and transport for that. But the things I want to do are not reasonable/sustainable for everyone so I feel like figuring out the best way to balance your own life and needs against community/environmental god is always a really personal discussion.

We order everything online. Groceries, diapers, cat litter, clothes, stuff for around the house, gifts, really everything.

However - we live in the city and don’t own a car.

Specifically as far as environmental degradation - it’s vastly better for the environment than driving everywhere. And in fact, the plethora of easy delivery options makes city living significantly easier and more manageable, and thus allows us a car free lifestyle.

Denser housing with way fewer cars and more delivery trucks is an environmental win. Delivery trucks with dozens of packages is much more efficient than dozens of people driving to Target individually.

Now - labor wise, this is a tougher call, as delivery drivers and warehouse workers are not adequately compensated, but that’s a different issue.

Anonymous wrote:There’s a time and a place for everything, but there is basically no excuse for not buying toilet paper an toothpaste and everyday stuff locally.

To the above poster: yes, everything arrives at stores on trucks and in packaging, but it’s a volume game. You don’t grasp the difference between one sweater ordered online from Ann Taylor being packaged and delivered to your door, versus a huge box of sweaters being delivered to an Ann Taylor store? A huge box will have sweaters individually wrapped in plastic, yes, but that’s one huge box, not 40 small cardboard boxes each containing a sweater wrapped in plastic.

Yes, I also grasp the difference between 40 customers driving to an Ann Taylor store, and 40 packages going out on trucks that have delivery routes through the neighborhood anyway. I guess if everybody walked to the store it might be different.

Anonymous wrote:There’s a time and a place for everything, but there is basically no excuse for not buying toilet paper an toothpaste and everyday stuff locally.

To the above poster: yes, everything arrives at stores on trucks and in packaging, but it’s a volume game. You don’t grasp the difference between one sweater ordered online from Ann Taylor being packaged and delivered to your door, versus a huge box of sweaters being delivered to an Ann Taylor store? A huge box will have sweaters individually wrapped in plastic, yes, but that’s one huge box, not 40 small cardboard boxes each containing a sweater wrapped in plastic.

Meh. Until Target stops selling things online I’m going to keep buying online.

Anonymous wrote:You should be shopping locally. It’s better for your community, and for the environment.

And you should be avoiding retailers that you know full well are awful to their employees. You vote with your dollar. Are you really OK with Amazon workers being forced to skip bathroom breaks, etc?

Of course there will be times when you have to order online. But when you can, you should be buying as close to home as possible.

The stuff you buy at Costco or anyplace else comes from other places. Even handcrafted items use materials and equipment that come from other places. And if items are not delivered you have to drive to the vendor and pick it up. And I have seen some analyses suggesting that buying locally grown food (unless it's from your own garden) results in more transportation, not less.

I don't buy a lot of stuff online, mostly if it's something where I'm not sure who will carry it and don't want to do a lot of hunting around locally. I usually try to buy direct from the vendor, not from Amazon. (This, of course, results in a lot of catalogs being mailed to my house, so there's that).

I loathe spending time in stores. One thing I DO do is pack as much into a single trip. Like, this week the only grocery item I really need is green onions. But I am out of dish soap (don't have a dishwasher, kitchen is tiny) and I buy a bulk size. I also need a bottle of bleach (I keep one in the basement laundry and one in the kitchen, the kitchen bottle is empty). And I'm out of spare light bulbs and a few lamps/light fixtures have gone dark. So before I head out to get green onions and dish soap I will think about anything else I am likely to need in the next month.

There’s a time and a place for everything, but there is basically no excuse for not buying toilet paper an toothpaste and everyday stuff locally.

To the above poster: yes, everything arrives at stores on trucks and in packaging, but it’s a volume game. You don’t grasp the difference between one sweater ordered online from Ann Taylor being packaged and delivered to your door, versus a huge box of sweaters being delivered to an Ann Taylor store? A huge box will have sweaters individually wrapped in plastic, yes, but that’s one huge box, not 40 small cardboard boxes each containing a sweater wrapped in plastic.

Anonymous wrote:From a thread about packages

"Oh FFS -- it's a bunch of crap you couldn't be bothered to stop at CVS and pick up on your way home. Instead you expect a bunch of people making next to nothing to pack it all up in a great big box, drive it from who knows where to your address and walk it up your front steps because you're too freaking lazy to make the trip. And then you get to put a crapton of cardboard and who knows what else into a landfill."

What is the balance? Are there people ordering TP on Amazon?
Costco is hugely inconvenient for me. I am tempted to just exert my privilege and order everything instead of trying to get to the store. But guilt stops me.
In the grand scheme of things, what should we be doing as a society? What can I do as an individual?

Stop listening to idiots like the PP you quoted.

Target treats their workers decently (not the Shipt contractors, but the regular employees). So I fill up a cart there and place an order every week or two for shipping. Sometimes it comes in separate boxes, sometimes it all comes in one box.
Honestly, I don't think buying in store has any bigger environmental or labor benefits than buying online. It all has to be trucked to the store and unpacked, you just don't see the boxes or the plastic. And I don't think local shops are necessarily better at offering benefits to employees.
The best thing to do is just buy less. Buy used when you can, or locally made in the U.S. when you can, or just avoid buying the thing because you have something else that works OK.

You should be shopping locally. It’s better for your community, and for the environment.

And you should be avoiding retailers that you know full well are awful to their employees. You vote with your dollar. Are you really OK with Amazon workers being forced to skip bathroom breaks, etc?

Of course there will be times when you have to order online. But when you can, you should be buying as close to home as possible.

From a thread about packages

"Oh FFS -- it's a bunch of crap you couldn't be bothered to stop at CVS and pick up on your way home. Instead you expect a bunch of people making next to nothing to pack it all up in a great big box, drive it from who knows where to your address and walk it up your front steps because you're too freaking lazy to make the trip. And then you get to put a crapton of cardboard and who knows what else into a landfill."

What is the balance? Are there people ordering TP on Amazon?
Costco is hugely inconvenient for me. I am tempted to just exert my privilege and order everything instead of trying to get to the store. But guilt stops me.
In the grand scheme of things, what should we be doing as a society? What can I do as an individual?