Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Walking away is thrown back as "refusing to engage" - even if the walking away is after a several minute diatribe against me.

Suggesting spouse go take a walk until they are less angry escalates confrontation - "Don't you EVER tell me to get out of my house, DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" at the top of voice.

The kids are traumatized and have been for years. He doesn't care at all and my attempts to say I won't have screaming matches in front of them is futile. I should have left YEARS ago and I know it. If I attempt it now it will be a scorched earth battle for sure.

He travels a lot for work and doesn't really give a crap about actually interacting with the kids so in general, avoidance has been the key.

Any tips other than preparing for divorce?

Court ordered psych exam or neuropsych— dollars to donuts he’s in the spectrum. And thus will never change or get better or normal.

Not OP, but even if he is on the spectrum... can you really get a diagnosis if he's totally not cooperative and denies it? I mean, you can diagnose oppositional behavior in a kid or even teen via surveys from their teachers, but an adult? How do you survey behavior from objective sources? How would this even work for someone who is high functioning, intelligent, manipulative, etc?

Court orders psych exam, anger mgmt class, mandates therapy for all, parenting class, AA class, etc. Might be needed if he wants custody and there are kids suffering from ongoing trauma syndrome from their verbally and emotionally abusive father.

Anonymous wrote:Walking away is thrown back as "refusing to engage" - even if the walking away is after a several minute diatribe against me.

Suggesting spouse go take a walk until they are less angry escalates confrontation - "Don't you EVER tell me to get out of my house, DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" at the top of voice.

The kids are traumatized and have been for years. He doesn't care at all and my attempts to say I won't have screaming matches in front of them is futile. I should have left YEARS ago and I know it. If I attempt it now it will be a scorched earth battle for sure.

He travels a lot for work and doesn't really give a crap about actually interacting with the kids so in general, avoidance has been the key.

Any tips other than preparing for divorce?

Read up on divorcing a narcissist and only bother speaking to attorneys experienced with verbally abusive/ domestic violence white collar bastards to walk the line.
You can do it and get comfortable with a rapid fire plan to get out. Then pull the trigger, execute and let the lawyer handle everything. Do not bother trying to mediate with an abuser or liar. Do not bother, they are not honest.

Anonymous wrote:Walking away is thrown back as "refusing to engage" - even if the walking away is after a several minute diatribe against me.

Suggesting spouse go take a walk until they are less angry escalates confrontation - "Don't you EVER tell me to get out of my house, DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" at the top of voice.

The kids are traumatized and have been for years. He doesn't care at all and my attempts to say I won't have screaming matches in front of them is futile. I should have left YEARS ago and I know it. If I attempt it now it will be a scorched earth battle for sure.

He travels a lot for work and doesn't really give a crap about actually interacting with the kids so in general, avoidance has been the key.

Any tips other than preparing for divorce?

Say: I love you too babe.

And walk away.

Doubt a/he will follow up to resolve the conflict, since their Mo is to never resolve the issue and instead start an argument and then personally attack you.

Once you see this constant pattern - albeit you don’t know what will set them off when - you’ll be better able to DETACH, expect nothing, and see how psycho and juvenile and sad that person truly is. It’s like they never fully developed part of their brain to be empathetic or connect or find mutual solutions. In many ways, their brain just did not evolve.

Anonymous wrote:A relationship counselor once made us agree to rules of engagement when fighting. That included:
1) No name calling
2) No threatening to leave / divorce
3) If one person says - they need to take a break from the argument, they can. However they must be willing to discuss the next day. They can't just pretend it didn't happen.

OP here - I am happy that you have a spouse that would like to work on the issues.

You need an individual therapist OP. That person can help you strategize about how to respond to the abuse, how to plan emotionally for divorce and how to take care if your traumatized kids.

In general, for arguments and all interactions, I would grey rock as much as you can.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Walking away is thrown back as "refusing to engage" - even if the walking away is after a several minute diatribe against me.

Suggesting spouse go take a walk until they are less angry escalates confrontation - "Don't you EVER tell me to get out of my house, DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" at the top of voice.

The kids are traumatized and have been for years. He doesn't care at all and my attempts to say I won't have screaming matches in front of them is futile. I should have left YEARS ago and I know it. If I attempt it now it will be a scorched earth battle for sure.

He travels a lot for work and doesn't really give a crap about actually interacting with the kids so in general, avoidance has been the key.

Any tips other than preparing for divorce?

Court ordered psych exam or neuropsych— dollars to donuts he’s in the spectrum. And thus will never change or get better or normal.

Not OP, but even if he is on the spectrum... can you really get a diagnosis if he's totally not cooperative and denies it? I mean, you can diagnose oppositional behavior in a kid or even teen via surveys from their teachers, but an adult? How do you survey behavior from objective sources? How would this even work for someone who is high functioning, intelligent, manipulative, etc?

A relationship counselor once made us agree to rules of engagement when fighting. That included:
1) No name calling
2) No threatening to leave / divorce
3) If one person says - they need to take a break from the argument, they can. However they must be willing to discuss the next day. They can't just pretend it didn't happen.

Talk to a lawyer. Get yourself and your kids safe first and deal with the scorched earth later.

Thank goodness he travels a lot for work. I wish my raging spouse would more.

Anonymous wrote:Walking away is thrown back as "refusing to engage" - even if the walking away is after a several minute diatribe against me.

Suggesting spouse go take a walk until they are less angry escalates confrontation - "Don't you EVER tell me to get out of my house, DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" at the top of voice.

The kids are traumatized and have been for years. He doesn't care at all and my attempts to say I won't have screaming matches in front of them is futile. I should have left YEARS ago and I know it. If I attempt it now it will be a scorched earth battle for sure.

He travels a lot for work and doesn't really give a crap about actually interacting with the kids so in general, avoidance has been the key.

Any tips other than preparing for divorce?

Court ordered psych exam or neuropsych— dollars to donuts he’s in the spectrum. And thus will never change or get better or normal.

How I did it:

1. Divorce
2. Discuss absolutely nothing unless it is critically important to the kids. Everything else goes through attorneys.
3. Keep a record of everything said and get a court order to use My Family Wizard. Amazing how they can be reasonable when they know other people are reading what they say.

You are not going to fix this. Get out and get therapy for your kids, not necessarily in that order.

As he's screaming at you, apologize for being thoughtless and agree with everything he says. Praise him for bringing all of these issues to your attention. Praise him for anything you can think of. Tell him you'll do better in the future, and you're so lucky to have him for guiding you to see the light. With any luck, after a while, he'll have no more ammunition and not be getting any new fuel from you, so this will diffuse the situation and bring his anger level a notch or two down.

Don't even remotely suggest that anything he says is wrong, including that he's angry and needs to calm down (by taking a walk, for example). He'll take that as a full blown threat. You stating that you're walking away is implicitly implying he's done something wrong, which he'll also take as a threat. And in the rage state, any threat is a 10 alarm fire. You cannot have a back and forth conversation, he can't process it in his state. Anything you say he'll interpret it as a threat, then attack you with it. If you can and feel like it would help, bring the issues up at some point when he's not angry and can talk about the calmly. However, it sounds like he's not someone who can ever really be reasonable, so this might not even really be possible.

Try to stay away from him as much as possible and live your life. Your choice whether to stay or divorce, not judging either decision. If you stay, try to learn the triggers (however illogical they may be) and either avoid them or just stay away entirely when you can tell he's agitated/tired/hungry whatever it is.

You can't argue with someone who refuses to listen.

Most people in today's world don't listen. They only wait to respond. You can't win with these types of people. They do not care what you have to say. They only care about when they get to speak.

Walking away is thrown back as "refusing to engage" - even if the walking away is after a several minute diatribe against me.

Suggesting spouse go take a walk until they are less angry escalates confrontation - "Don't you EVER tell me to get out of my house, DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" at the top of voice.

The kids are traumatized and have been for years. He doesn't care at all and my attempts to say I won't have screaming matches in front of them is futile. I should have left YEARS ago and I know it. If I attempt it now it will be a scorched earth battle for sure.

He travels a lot for work and doesn't really give a crap about actually interacting with the kids so in general, avoidance has been the key.

Any tips other than preparing for divorce?