Reply to Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US.  Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life.  They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close.  The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children.   They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over.  What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?  [/quote]

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?[/quote]

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

[/quote]

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all).  If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here.  Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?).  If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

[/quote]

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.  
I don't hate anything.  I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.  
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.  
Systems evolve.[/quote]

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring. [/quote]

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.
[/quote]

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school.  NOT the pushy parents. [/quote]
colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point.  It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.[/quote]

You are correct, it should not be.  Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being,[b] if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen.[/b] It has been this way for generations.  You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not. [/quote]
No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college.  People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race.  I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.[/quote]

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....[/quote]
Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.[/quote]

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.  :roll: [/quote]
you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans.   The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.[/quote]

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad. 
Thanks for playing![/quote]
don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.".  These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews.  Wrong then; wrong now.[/quote]

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.  
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?   [/quote]

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure:  Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general.  Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago?  Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB.  Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D.  Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work.  That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters.  But both went to Ivys.  I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh.  One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—[b]if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family[/b] than in a White, Black or Hispanic family.  Of course, each family is different.  But in general it’s true. [/quote]
And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.[/quote]

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.[/quote]

That’s the point.  There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another.  Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course.  Just bought a couple of books to study himself.  Got 1590.  Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”[/quote]

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping [/quote]

But not at the level for many privileged and asians.  They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580.  Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580. [/quote]

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different.  I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.  
Very strange mindset.

[/quote]

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.[/quote]

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score. 
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

[/quote]

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.[/quote]

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

[/quote]

But yet Harvard and the likes no longer care, once you hit the 1500+ it does not matter.  And that is what these people are mad about.  So rather than recognizing that it's only 1 small part of the admission picture, they get mad that their perfect/near perfect SAT kid did not gain admission to a highly rejective school.  Most elite schools only care that you hit a certain mark (or just don't submit scores) and then they dont' look at SAT/ACT anymore.  It's not the be all end all for deciding who is the best candidate.  You may be mad about that, but it's reality.  And IMO a good reality....many more indicators of who will be successful in life than an SAT test. [/quote]

Again and again and gain and gain.
Of course they have high test scores, but also they have high scores on ECs, leadership, interview, essay, etc.
Now likability score is invented.
So now these people get mad.[/quote]

A hiring manager once told me that when she calls someone in for an interview they already have the job. They have been vetted and pre-qualified. The interview is just to see whether or not they want to spend 8 hours a day with them almost every day of the year.

So while I agree that "likability scores" are borderline and suspicious its not like they aren't a real thing. [/quote]

LOL Asians actually scored higher on likability by interviewers who actually talked to the student one on one.

There's really no excuse.

[/quote]
+1 again, the issue I have with Harvard's admission is the BS "likeability' where the AO marks Asian Americans as "low likeability" without ever having met them, yet the Interviewer, who has met them, marked them "likeable".

I stated up thread, using the job analogy... imagine applying for a job, where you meet all the checkmarks, but the hiring team categorizes you as "not likeable" having never met you all because you are black.  How does that not scream racial discrimination?[/quote]

Imagine?????  Are you kidding? I have seen jobs go <<poof>> in front of my eyes as soon as I walked into the room. After multiple phone screens, technical assessments, background checks, literally flying to a different city, etc. Then the hiring manager wraps it up after 5 minutes.

I know many people who have experienced this. People are left wondering exactly which flavor of prejudice it was. Could be anything. You don't know which thing it was. But you are certain it was something. [/quote]

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