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Reply to "U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school"
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem “Economically disadvantaged students increased from 0.62% (2020-21) to 25.09%.”[/quote] People knew which boxes to check last year to get a boost. The ideal candidate is now a Hispanic student from Poe or Black student from Whitman who reports being economically disadvantaged. [/quote] Only amoral people checked it if they weren’t truly low-income. [/quote] What's the definition of low-income? [/quote] Did you qualify for free or reduced lunches before the pandemic? Did you have a serious financial setback during the pandemic? [/quote] Is there an official thing at of quantifying this? Can one get a certificate of low income? [/quote] There are a variety of resources available if you need some assistance. Info and application for free/reduced lunch. https://www.fcps.edu/resources/student-safety-and-wellness/food-and-nutrition-programs/free-and-reduced-price-meals More info: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/nutrition/resources/faqs.shtml “ Children from families with incomes at or below 130 percent of the poverty level are eligible for free meals. Those between 130 percent and 185 percent of the poverty level are eligible for reduced-price meals” https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/familyservices/sites/familyservices/files/assets/boardsauthoritiescommissions/community-action-advisory-board/pdfs/2020-community-action-advisory-board-state-of-the-poor-bookmark.pdf “ In 2019, poverty for a family of four is defined as a family annual income of less than $25,750 per year.” [/quote] So we have 25% of the current class with family income below $25k per year?[/quote] Or taking the 185% criteria, 25% of the class has less than $60k. Who's measuring this? [/quote] Less than $50k family income rather[/quote] I would really like to see verification....for all the touring of the 25% number. [/quote] It’s all self reported based on the 2 meals questions on the application. Since everyone gets free meals, anyone can say yes. Lisa Williams the FCPS equity czar, left in Dec 2021. Was her departure related to the meals questions?[/quote] Unbelievable..essentially answering yes on that question led to +131 more admissions while the story being told is that they earn less than $47K in family income? this is what happens when fools don't understand process. [/quote] Some of those are probably parents trying to game the system but there are certainly more ED kids than the prior process (0.6%). [/quote] Rather than fetishize numbers that may be wildly off you might ask whether there’s any real point left to operating TJ as a magnet. Objective observers not so caught up in the idea of “winning” by kicking Asian and/or Carson/Longfellow/Rocky Run kids out would say probably not. [/quote] There are certainly more low-income students there than before. There may be no way to know exact #s. Wanted to expand access isn’t “kicking” anyone. :roll: [/quote] Certainly is - when only Asian numbers are going down. 27% up for whites is part of expanding access. [/quote] When a group that makes up 15%-20% of the county's population gets over 50% of all TJ seats they don't have a lot to complain about. At least try telling that to groups that make up more than 20% and only get less than 5% of the seats.[/quote] It’s only ok because Asians are the ones being discriminated against. If it were black or Hispanic kids the outrage would be endless.[/quote] I mean, Black and Hispanic students have been discriminated against for the entirety of TJ's history on the grounds that not being able to keep up with students whose parents funded expensive exam prep made them somehow "less qualified". And people still spout crap like that, and the false nonsense that Black and Hispanic parents "don't care as much about their child's education", when the relevant point to this conversation is that they don't start focusing narrowly on one single educational opportunity at an extraordinarily early age. Which is understandable, given that THEY COULDN'T GET IN BECAUSE OF EXAM PREP CULTURE.[/quote] Changing TJ's admission policy will not change the fact that some people will further enrichment (whether solving AOPS/Khan Academy problems on their own (for free) or going to AOPS/RM, etc.). If you have children you will know that some kids are either into it or not. You cannot force a kid to be good at math (at least to the level of AIME, etc.) or any other subject for that matter, no matter how much money you spend. Even if you change the admission policy, the people who do not have time/resources will continue not to have these resources. 21 9th graders at TJ dropped out for some reason (freshman is now down to 529 as of end of March from 550). This is unprecedented. What gives? Unless you provide resources (at a far earlier age), high school is too late to overcome falling behind what has accumulated for 14 years. TJ is not that kind of place. Figure out why there is less representation for URMs/FARMs even at the AAP level starting in 3rd grade. Fix the problem. Don't pretend to have solved the problem. [/quote] Move to a lottery with anyone above a 3.5 qualifying and solve the problem that way. [/quote] It's the only real solution since so many seem to be fighting for an advantage that benefits them without any regard for the common good.[/quote] Then why the 3.5 grade point average requirement? I would say that's not equitable. Not at all. Surely, there are more kids who score under 3.5 GPA who are economically disadvantaged and underrepresented minorities, who cannot pay for additional tutoring and prepping to get a 3.5 GPA. Why should those kids be discriminated against and kept out of TJ.[/quote] A GPA cutoff seems reasonable. It doesn't require affluence like prep classes just determination and intelligence both of which are necessary to succeed in a program like TJs. [/quote] Yes, it measures performance in classes available to the students. So even if they didn't score well on a test in 2nd grade or get on the express train to advanced math in elementary school they can still demonstrate their abilities. [/quote] How do we account for different grading practices across different schools and classes? [/quote] The other day, my kid was very upset his current math teacher cut a solid point for missing a small symbol in his final otherwise correct answer essentially invalidating his entire solution. This is teacher known for being very strict with grading. I tried to tell him that teacher is trying teach a lesson that kids won’t forget. But he said it’s not fair because the other math teachers don’t do that and kids in other classes get much higher math scores than his class. He would be fine if all teachers are consistent - I checked his papers and surprised how easy it is to miss the grade. My kid is always super stressed about the math tests, not because he doesn’t know how to solve, but even simple missing a simple symbol or units could cost him a lot of points. Anyways, the point is, if there is so much difference with in a single school, I can’t imagine the grading differences across the schools. [/quote] grades are evil. we should just get rid of them...it is not a competition. kids should be kids. [/quote] Tell me about it. My kid got A- in his 7th grade English in spite of trying super hard and I had to help him out when he was stressed. He said he never really got along with the teacher as she barely used to teach and engage in unnecessary conversations with the kids who entertained her. Or, may be the teacher didn’t like his style of writing. But 8th grade, right from the start he always got full scores and even averaged around 99 and without much effort and I hardly seen him stressing/doing English homework’s at home. He loves his 8th grade teacher. I don’t know if his English really deserves full marks in 8th grade, but I can certainly say he didn’t deserve A- in 7th and it might even cost him TJ. Anyways, nothing can be changed, just trying make the similar point about grading discrepancies. [/quote] Agreed. We need to eliminate grades. [/quote] And schools, and books, and pen and paper. We will finally all be equitable when we are all drawing figures with sticks in mud again. [/quote] No, we need at least one data point where everyone is evaluated on the same scale. However, this means some sort of a standardized test, which is frowned upon especially in this forum. But, testing can be prepped and we want admissions that requires 'zero' preparation. But, what no one understands is preparation is part of life and it is difficult to avoid it. In real life, we say preparation is key to success. I always tell my kids that if they see some done well and looks easy, it only means there is a ton of effort behind it which we don't realize until we try to do it ourselves. The current admission process is very subjective with out a single data point that evaluates kids on the same scale. If this is not enough, it adds a ton of free booster points to some and telling them they cannot compete any other way. I would rather just allocate quotas openly and let the kids at least compete 'fairly and equally' within their allocate groups. Otherwise, we have no way of knowing how many kids gets boosted by other experience factors each year. Its not really fair to offer kid who edge out due to an extra 200 or 300 booster points over a regular kid who only score a little less due to lack of booster points. Instead, if there is an open quota for booster kids, non-booster kids will at least know that they are in a fair competition with other non boosters and boosters aren't taking away their place. Anyways, this is my take on it. [/quote] Sounds like a lottery is the only solution.[/quote]
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