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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]Oh, sweetie... when I look at the God question rationally, I see absolutely no room for God. It is clear to me that we evolved and morality is a function of our inherent nature as primates who live in troupes. [/quote]

OK, let's assume you are correct.  There is a high price to pay for that position.  If morality is just something that emanates from the mishmash of atoms that comprise a particular human being's perspective, then nothing is actually wrong.  Child rape, genocide, wife beating...not [i]actually[/i] wrong.  Sure, you personally may find those things wrong, and you might even get a coercive power to say they are wrong, but they are not wrong independent of you and your henchmen.  Another powerful group comes along who disagrees with you, and they will then have their list of things that are wrong, like women having the right to vote and black people having equal rights to white people.  And so on and so on.

Morality means nothing if it is dependent on human perspective and power.  Without an Absolute Authority, it's all the same, from Gandhi to ripping hearts out of living children.[/quote]

Of course, they are wrong. They harm people and cause suffering.

People like you terrify me. You are basically saying that if you didn't believe in God, you would run amok and cause great harm and suffering to other people. You project your lack of control onto atheists.

[/quote]

[b]No, you are constructing a straw man.  Obviously, atheists can be good without a BELIEF in God.  But there can be no such thing as good or bad without God.  God is the ultimate GOOD, the real Truth, the complete perfect standard.[/b]

Your standard of "wrong" is harming people, causing them suffering.  That's to be commended--you are not a sadist.  Unfortunately, a great deal of humanity would disagree with your standard of "wrong."  Indeed, some of the happiest and most successful humans got to where they are/were by harming other people.  But they don't care.  They do not see humans as anything special.  And after all, if we are just another primate, the result of a mindless evolutionary chain, with a life that ends with the destruction of our bodies, we are nothing special.

And if preventing suffering is a standard, then I assume mercy killing of human beings would fit?  If the person did not know it was coming, and was emancipated from a painful or unhappy state, what's the harm?  There are too many old people in the world right now--soon, it will be a crisis.  Why not terminate every old person who has no one who cares about him/her?  Or maybe just the ones who are alone and out of their minds?

Hmmm...some people would think that was an excellent idea.  Other people would think it was barbaric.  Who is right?  Who is wrong?  Why do we have a notion of justice when there is nothing but injustice all around us?

We all violate the moral law.  But there is, in fact, violation.

The "of course" at the start of your post is your acknowledgement of that reality.[/quote]

If you are a good Catholic, you know that God reveals himself in Natural Law, which means that we can observe the truth about right and wrong from the nature of the universe itself.  If good is observable through nature, then the atheist has a plausible argument for a priori good without God.[/quote]

Yes, again, an atheist can observe, discover, and realize the difference between good and evil without BELIEF in God, because there is Natural Law.  But without an ACTUAL God, there would be no good/evil to find.  There would just be the brute fact of existence, no more or less.

An atheist could not even entertain the concept of right and and wrong without there being an ABSOLUTE standard of right and wrong, which is God.[/quote]

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