Reply to When Assault Rifles get into the hands of people that want to harm police, and other people

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Let's see what Dallas Police Chief thinks about gun control...

"In a dramatic moment, he urged legislators to do their jobs and propose new laws to combat gun violence.

"We're doing ours. We're putting our lives on the line," Brown said. "The other aspects of government need to step up and help us.""

He also addresses open carry laws.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/11/485559307/listen-on-guns-dallas-police-chief-tells-legislators-do-your-job[/quote]

Select quotes:

"2. He also touched on the problem he sees with open-carry laws, which he said were increasingly challenging for law enforcement. "We don't know who the good guy is versus who the bad guy is if everybody starts shooting," he said."

So in his mind, only the bad guys should be shooting? He wants innocent people to be powerless to defend themselves against an active shooter because that makes it easier for the police to tell who the bad guys are? Really? Is this what you want, a police that guns only in the hands of criminals and murderers?[/quote]

The less guns the better - good and bad guys. Let's get rid of them all.

This guy has a lot of experience with bad guys/violence and is trying to keep his community safe. I'll listen to him over some hobby gun nut.

[/quote]

No, there is no evidence that less guns = less bad guys/violence.

Take a look at actual data:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

Gun ownership rate has *NO* correlation to overall rate of murders and gun murders. Just because this guy has a lot of experience does not make him right. Donald Trump has a lot of experience running a business, does not make him a great business man. [/quote]

You are deluded into thinking guns = safety. It's a shame you care much more about your right to a hobby than to the safety of your community. 
[/quote]

I really don't understand why you wasted your time typing this when I very clearly said that gun ownership has no correlation to overall rate of murders and gun murders. In other words, guns don't cause any more or less murders and gun murders. No correlation. Got that? This is shown by actual data. This is not based on my warm and fuzzy feelings. My preference to own or not own a gun does not factor into this. This is real actual raw data for people to see, examine, and understand. Understand? [/quote]

But then when you look globally there is a correlation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html

Did you look at the data you posted? The by country data clearly shows no correlation between gun ownership rate and homicides by guns per 100,000 rate, or the % of homicides by guns rate. 
[/quote][/quote]

Sorry - should have said "in high-come countries" and you'd have to parse it out.

This is more readable:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

[/quote]

Aha!!!! So you are admitting that there are other factors? I thought the argument was that guns cause homicides because it makes them so easy to commit. If this was the case there should be a clear correlation between gun ownership and homicides. So you now agree that there are other factors that cause homicides and eliminating guns or reducing gun ownership rate may not result in less homicides? [/quote]

Huh? Did you read the links?

"We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides.  These results often hold even when the United States is excluded."

"After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide."

"We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. "

"the relationship between gun prevalence (levels of household gun ownership) and suicide, homicide and unintentional firearm death and concludes that where there are higher levels of gun ownership, there are more gun suicides and more total suicides, more gun homicides and more total homicides, and more accidental gun deaths."

"In high gun states, LEOs are 3 times more likely to be murdered than LEOs working in low-gun states."

More guns = more deaths

What else would you expect, they are designed to kill.

[/quote]

More guns = more deaths

End of discussion? [/quote]

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