Reply to Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Leila Ahmed was born in Egypt and reared there, but her family emigrated to Europe when life became difficult under Nasser.  She received her PhD from Cambridge.  So her scholarship is in the Western tradition.

Dalil means proof and is used in Islamic law.  Are you sure you did not mean isnad, or chain of narrartors of a hadith?  I ask because what is being contested here is what is in the Quran and not what it is in the hadith.  Hadith are not needed to discern meaning in the Quran, which itsel says its meaning is clear, so whether you are speaking of dalil or isnad it is irrelevant.

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I wasn't aware that you have single-handedly decided that hadith has to be excluded from the body of Islamic law foundations.  I mean, you are free to think that hadith is irrelevant.  You should know that this is a minority position in the Islamic theologian crowd.  Most scholars look to strong hadith as examples of how Quranic verses were practiced.   But do please feel free to tell Muslims the way they pray is wrong and irrelevant - because you know, the movements of Muslim prayer aren't really outlined in the Quran, but somehow the entire Muslim world knows how to pray.[/quote]

You are twisting what I said.  I said that that hadith is not needed to understand verses in the Quran.  If you hold the position that the hadith are needed then you are positing that the Quran is obscure and unclear, in contradiction to what the Quran itself says.

Understand in this context means to the extent needed by ordinary human beings.  It does not rule out that there may be deeper meanings in the Quran that few grasp.  But certainly, how you are supposed to dress has to be one of those things that needs to be clear to ordinary human beings.

Thus, the passage about women drawing their khimar about their chest (which is the verse used used to say women must wear the hijab) has to be about exactly that--a command for women to cover their chests.  It has nothing to do with hair and it has nothing to do with faces, even though the khimar was a kind of cloak sometimes slung around the shoulders and other time around the head partially covering the hair, much as a shawl today might be used.

This is all pretty clear, and there is no need to go scurrying off to the hadith to figure out what is meant.[/quote]
LOL you say it is clear and then in the same breath you say the cloak was sometimes worn around the shoulders and sometimes around the head, so how do you know from which position it has to be drawn?[/quote]

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