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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]If you listen to any admissions officers’ podcasts, they are all trying to save people. They all sound like lovely humans who mean well, obviously got into this profession to make a difference, but you can tell they are also a little too idealistic and naive (so many sound so young, in their mid to late 20’s, but even the older ones sound idealistic). They talk so much about[b] “distance traveled”, placing a lot of emphasis on helping first-gen, low income, and especially rural kids. [/b]

In principle I agree with them too, but it sounds like in reality, a lot of these kids are just not ready when they come on campus. A lot of resources are being spent on outreaching to these kids, flying them in all expenses paid, paying for college prep experiences for them during the summer after they are admitted, and setting aside special mentors and remedial classes for them once they arrive. Professors are complaining, but they also want to help these kids. I support efforts to advance upward mobility (the world is too unfair) and hope some of these kids do come out swinging on the other side, but there will be some who won’t make it. This is not a movie and life is not The Blind Side, but I understand why they try. In the long run, their well-intended crusade could end up fracturing long-standing institutions; you can already see that happening on campuses. I guess to them, that’s a risk worth taking.

America is an idealistic country and a young country so we always try to force things to happen sooner. In general, I tend to think that’s a good thing. In countries that have been around longer and are more practical like the UK, they let poor kids rise to the top on their own and somehow make it to Oxbridge from dirt poor families, but those kids are rare and typically white. Tuition is also much lower there so the economic barriers are not as high if the universities don’t go out of their way to manufacture a special path for the poor kids. [/quote]

Unfortunately, all true. An AO recently said at an in-person conference that they(an elite/ivy) are "all fighting to get the rural kids." In a post-supreme court SFFA ruling, they are finding diversity without directly seeking race. AO goals are not the same as what professors would choose. At some elites professors sit on admission committees and many will share frustrations with what the process has become. 
We have two currently at two different ivies and another attended a similar elite non-ivy, and I know many students and professors across ivy/elite and UVA and others. Many are not ready at all. [b]The unhooked kids almost always are the top part of the curves, get invited to TA, get the departmental awards.[/b] Sure, it may not matter for some career goals but GPA matters for many next steps. The unhooked students appreciate the fairly easy path to being above average. The unprepared students not only often change majors to something that gives easy A, they are a large mental health risk. [b]Professors will tell you the top students are overall more impressive, more intelligent than a decade ago but the bottom quartile is much worse and it started before the pandemic, then got dramatically worse with TO beginning fall 2021(college grads 2025).[/b] TO is over but the high school grade inflation, the gaps from the pandemic years, the culture of re-taking tests and poor study habits in high school, exams in high school only worth 25% of the grade when they are 80-100% of the grade in college and no re-takes. [/quote]

DO you have any actual evidence for this? I'll answer for you. No, you don't.

Complete blithering fiction.[/quote]

:)  I wasn't even going to weigh in, but then I saw your post. So ridiculous to blame rural or truly economically disadvantaged kids, as they are by far the smallest population at any Ivy +. If the overall standards of a school are slipping, it is down to the 80% who are not only wealthy but ultra-wealthy. What is "fracturing long-standing institutions" is the total disregard for the middle class, same as in our wider political system. This is the reason everyone has turned into a cheating slacker: the one group that isn't either too disenfranchised to work or too entitled is the group with least clout in the admissions process.[/quote]

This is a story as old as time.....people are jealous when they see someone getting something that they feel that they deserve. No different than the race card being played by the republican party to lure in uneducated whites.

Maybe the best solution for all is for the top private schools (most top schools in the US are private) to go back to what they have historically been at the undergraduate level. Historically they were a training ground for Upper and almost Upper class families of wealth and other families of power and influence. The MC and lower UMC as a whole has never been actually wanted or welcome as undergraduates at these institutions. The top schools can dismiss the idea of helping the less well off in the name of 'fairness' to the MC and UMC families which covet admission but constantly cry about cost or access. Redirecting all of these kids to the public system will help everyone by providing more and better students to the public schools.

People will cry 'they have our tax dollars, they must do what we demand'! No, they need not cater to you, they are private institutions. They do not need your tax dollars to fulfill their undergraduate mission (no more poor means no more Pell money and it's not needed anyway if most are full pay). If we are stupid enough as a country to shut down graduate research grants and damage the most efficient research machine in the world (and it looks like the current administration might just be that stupid) we as a country deserve the end result.[/quote]

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