Reply to Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.  
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I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life.  He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around.  That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him.  Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree.  And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies.  Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back.  Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money.  Her dad wants to teach her responsibility.  Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation.  You and your wife should pay your own way if you go.  If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation.  Norms differ.  Only some parents treat.  Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals.  Let them get mad.

Restaurants.  Split the check.  It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct.  Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt.  You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it".  Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family.  You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin.  Encourage her to have a plan.  If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.[/quote]

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic.  There was no formal loan document.  The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000.  The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work.  I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene.  This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.   [/quote]

PP.  The idea of this "loan" is likely her father's comment on the usefulness of spending $200K on this degree.

There is obviously an attempt here to "teach" something to the daughter.  You and  your norms from your family of origin are external to it. Whether the lesson seems ridiculous to you is kind of beside the point.

It's not unusual for parents to try and get kids to pay for their college. Even rich ones.  From my observation, it does take several generations of wealth to create the kind of family generosity engine that you have benefitted from.

An 18 year old is an adult.  [b]It may be the case that your wife could have picked a less expensive college and that a $200K education was an expensive choice she made as an adult.  Her father may view that education as a pure luxury that she chose, knowing her career could never pay it back.  As a self-made blue collar person, perhaps he did not agree with her path, despite providing the up-front money to fund it.[/b]

The more interesting thing here is that you appear to have signed up for an asymmetric financial relationship with your wife.  Therefore, you will always be transferring your money (which you consider subsidized by your family's gifts) to cover your wife's expenses.  You clearly do not see her as a 50% partner in your money since you do not want to fund the things that she would probably spend money on related to her parents if you did not object.  It sounds like she has transferred her loyalty from one controlling man to another.  That's why my sister and have chosen to remain high-earning working mothers.  We don't want this kind of money-based financial dependency and guilt in our lives.[/quote]
100%   The fact that they still funded it with 0% interest means that they were willing to support her but wanted her to understand what her choices meant. That's on her.

Just because you have money doesn't mean you should spend it on something that has low ROI. That's not a good use of money, and the FIL knows that.

As a blue collar worker who built up his own wealth, he's given her the means to do the same, but she's chosen a different path.

You, OP, don't know what it's like to not be wealthy and build up your wealth on your own.  You come across as an elitist snob.[/quote]

Ok but he was setting up his own daughter to fail- $200k loan knowing shw was going into a non-lucrative career just to make a point?  I'm sorry but that's crummy parenting, there were way better ways to handle this.   No wonder she felt like she had to marry the douchebag OP.[/quote]
It's scummy parenting to let your kids choose their own path but expect skin in the game?  What?

If he had said he wouldn't pay for her college unless she majored in engineering or business, some would call that crummy parenting.

You know what's crummy? Saying you would pay back a loan and then deciding later not to even though your rich husband can afford to.[/quote]

Again, I cannot genuinely beleive that some of you think this approach was good parenting- you do you though.  "Skin in the game" to me means defining up front how much we plan to contribute and helping our kids figure out how they can finance the rest if there is a differntial at their chosen school- e.g., summer/part-time job (which I would encourage regardless), applying for scholarships, modest loan if needed but only what they would qualify for indenpendently.  No 17-18yo child would be able to take out $200k on their own, GMAFB.[/quote]
You have no idea if they talked about all of  this or not.  IMO sounds like the wife isn't very smart about finances and expects her wealthy father or husband to always subsidize her choices.

You are correct that no 18 yr old would be able to take out a $200K loan.  And that's why the dad was willing to give her that interest free, lifetime loan.

He built his wealth on his own presumably without a parent who gave him a 0% $200K loan that he could pay pack over his lifetime.  He expected her to be able to do the same.  Knowing that she had to pay back the loan, she still chose to get a graduate degree that paid little.  She's no longer an 18 yr old, presumably, but continues to make bad choices.   That's on her.

Plenty of parents expect their kids to pay some rent at some point if they return home after graduation, even those who chose expensive colleges majoring in low paying fields.  I guess the parents are being manipulative for expecting their adult kids to pay their way.
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I agree that the wife sounds completely financially illiterate.  That is partly a parental fail though.  Maybe the parents despite their wealth weren't very literate either.  Like they didn't even have a dedicated savings account to pay for part of college?  They could have used that to help educate her by having her contribute earnings from her HS job.  Because surely a blue collar dad like that would have his kids out there working and getting experience once they could, right?  I don't think a loan for part of it is totally out of line but to do that for the entire pricetag is wild to me for such a wealthy family.  Maybe rich folks do things differently than the rest of us.[/quote]

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