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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It looks like you haven't been reading, so I will mention again that my DD has her court time and this is not about me or my family. So let's avoid the appeal to motive fallacy as we move on into this conversation.

I can see how the less experienced coaches may make a mistake thinking that a player is better than she actually is. I assume that these circumstances are relatively rare on the top teams and they happen most often on the bottom teams. The reason why the coach makes a mistake  (whether they misjudge the skills or they hope the player would develop at a faster rate) is quite irrelevant. You have an offer that has been made and a family that pours money into a club. The family has no idea who else is on the team and cannot foresee that the player would be benched for the season. Why would that family pay the price for the coach's decision to extend an offer? I can see you explaining away poor decision by the coach / club and only "sucks to be you" for the family. [/quote]

FYI-On an anonymous message board you can't tell who made a prior post. There is no way of knowing that you are the poster unless you include identifying info in every post you make.  Also, let's keeps thing civil -- there's no reason to come back with accusations of "you haven't been reading" to PP whose tone is reasonable and understanding, especially when the previous post clearly both quotes what they were responding to and references language used by other posters inline in their comments.

Having been around club volleyball a long with DDs playing everything from beginner development club volleyball all the way up to top-level club and now into college, there's a lot more nuance to this situation.

The end of what I think was your post was:
[quote]So you want people to believe that a player can have such a strong showing at tryouts that she can fool the coaches, but then she is so bad when the season starts that she needs to be benched. And that sounds totally reasonable to you and in no way you are trying to shift the blame from the poor club decisions during tryouts.[/quote]
Multiple other posters (including a coach) said the same thing: not only does the scenario you described happen, it happens often.  It happens all the way up to the top teams in the region, including Metro, Paramount, etc.  Its not "shift[ing] the blame from the poor club decision" its just stating a fact -- no club can perfectly determine any players ability in a 90 minute tryout window with 100 other players on the court. The top teams can see players dozens of times before they make the decision to offer them, specifically to minimize the risk of the exact scenario you describe as being unlikely, and it still happens to them virtually every year.  Sometimes its a bad read on the players ability, but other times the team composition shifts during offers and a player they thought would be good gets displaced by an even better player that decides to play from them. The same scenarios happen with developmental teams but they don't have the luxury of watching players before tryouts, so its even more likely they make a mistake on evaluating player ability level.

When the club hasn't seen a player before tryouts they make a decision based on limited info.  The primary argument in this thread has been "only the club knows the players who have accepted an offer" and if they make an offer to a player who can't keep up, that's 100% their fault and no responsibility lies with the player or the family.  That's not true.

From the coaches standpoint, think about how the offers are made.  Tryouts happen, coach sends out their first round of 12 offers.  They hope all 12 will accept because they represent their best team. 11/12 accept, a 12th offer is sent to the first waitlist player.  By definition the first waitlist player wasn't perceived to be as good as the other 12, they are already "below average" compared to the rest of the team.  But what if the decline happens first, the waitlist player gets their offer and accepts and then the other 11 offers accept? What happens if 6 players decline?  The waitlist player could be the potential worst player on the team or they might not be.  The first waitlist player moved from "below average" to average solely because of the decisions made by other families -- with no control over those by the coach.

If you are the first waitlist player, at the time of your offer the coach has no idea who has made the team yet - all they can do is tell you the offers they made. And once they make an offer they cannot rescind it.  This rule is in place to protect the player.  Without it coaches could offer everyone they want, wait until they get acceptances and then revoke offers to players they don't really want on the team.  That's a terrible situation because by the time the coach makes the decision all the other teams a player could play for will likely be full.

All of the above scenarios also completely ignore what happens after the team is formed. Even if everyone on the team starts at the same level, everyone progresses at different speeds.  A player could start practice with their team as an average player and by the time of their first tournament be either the best or the worst player on the team, especially at the youngest ages.

Beyond the offer process, there is a responsibility for the family and player to have an active role in the choice they make.  They do not have to be passive subjects to the club or coaches actions.

For the family, they are investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their time. Just like any investment or large purchase they need to do their research ahead of time.  Ask questions and make sure you know exactly what you are getting into.  Do so before accepting an offer. If a coach won't tell you their playing time philosophy or doesn't have one, run away -- there won't be a good outcome.

For the player, if she was benched for inability to play volleyball at the necessary level then its up to her and her coach to improve her so she can play.  Club volleyball is competitive at all levels, even developmental. Putting a player on a court in a match that can't perform at the level of the team has an negative impact on both the player and the team.  The coach has a responsibility to both and sometimes balancing that responsibility means taking the good of the many over the good of the few. Even on a developmental team.  That doesn't absolve the coach from fixing the situation.

While I personally disagree that any player should be benched on a truly developmental team there are situations where doing so is best both for the player and for the rest of the team.  Players should be asking their coaches what they need to do to improve, to see the court more, etc. Coaches like those conversations and every one we played for genuinely put in the effort to improve players as much as they could. But its not black and white. Does a player who makes a team then progresses slower deserve their playing time anyway? What if its the players fault because they aren't working hard or aren't focused in practice? What happens if they fall so far behind that they have a measurable impact on the teams performance (e.g. can't get a serve in, shank most serve receives, make an error most of the time when they hit) when compared to other players who have improved? Does a coach have an obligation to play a player who can't perform a skill at the required level in a tournament, even after the coach has worked hard to try to fix the situation?  The coach certainly has an obligation to help players improve, but when does that responsibility shift to the player?

Bottom Line: Clubs and coaches are accountable for the offers they make and the playing time decisions they make.  Players are responsible for working hard to improve and keeping up with the performance of the team.  And families are responsible for researching their decision before committing their time and money. Its much more nuanced than it appears.[/quote]

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