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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Hard to tell without knowing who the coaches are.

But I think if you are not on an MLSNext or ECNL team, it might be worth it based on the assumption that you’re training with a strong group of kids since it is tryout based.

I have no idea how much it is though so that will factor in. There are already a lot of small group training and great coaches around that are known good trainers.

[/quote]

I will add that redbull and Philadelphia have the same program and there are some threads in other groups (eg, FB) that gripe about the cost and that it’s not worth it and that very rarely are any players recruited from the RDS.

[/quote]

I've seen kids get picked up through their RDS system.  If a player doesn't make it, maybe they're not on that level.[/quote]

Most of the kids whose parents are interested are label-thirsty.  They are open for business from any high-level label that wants them: DCUA, MLS Next, ECNL, ODP, etc.

I hope this helps well-meaning but naive parents.  Do any of these parents know the development model for DCUA?  Who is coaching?  What is the benefit of the training?  Do they correct bad technique?

DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery.  As someone else mentioned, my child has open invites to all of the invite-only training that I am aware of which focuses on technical ball mastery with the top kids in the area so why would I need DCUA to develop?  Is DCUA going to sprinkle magic black and red pixie dust on your kids feet to teach them how to use their weak foot or how to take a ball out of the air?  That is accomplished by boring wall passing and receiving and unopposed ball mastery drills which can be done for $FREE.99.  Become a standout by doing double the number of reps on your weak foot as your strong foot until they don’t know whether you are left footed or right footed at the next tryout.

99% of kids are not proficient with both feet and can’t take a sloth 1v1 but want to be scouted by DCU 😂.

Learn the 🇺🇸 soccer game and play it. Don’t let these fancy acronym organizations play you.

If you have never:

-Had an opposing team ask you to guest play for them
-Been offered a free club sponsorship to play for a club
-Been invited to invite only training where your technique is called out and you are pushed
-Been invited to guest on a top tournament team
-Had local clubs trying to poach you from your current club

You are just not good enough YET.  Have your kid get to work to become that player that experiences those things.

100% honest truth and feel free to spend your money as you feel fit with this info.

IF they someone grab some of the top technique coaches in the area, I will easily change my tune.[/quote]

"DCUA is guilty on focusing on pace when internationally, the focus up to age 14 is technical development and ball mastery"

So Barcelona Academy, Real Madrid Academy, Arsenal Academy at 14 years of age doesn't focus on speed of play aka: pace?

DCUA starts at U14, so where did you get their pre-U14 individual development plan for U-littles?[/quote]

You compared pace at DCUA with pace at La Masia which clearly indicates you don’t know anything.  This was a classic official DCUA PR response so they can’t even get anonymous trolling right? 😂🤣😂🤣

Hey, the owners are brilliant.  They are raking in millions and these details for parents are buried in an anonymous blog so most won’t find it.  Those that do will still believe in the DCUA foot ferry who will make their average EDP III player an academy baller in just 8 sessions for $395.  🤣😂🤣😂

No wonder private equity is entering youth sports. I need to start a club.[/quote]

Actually, pace at DCUA wasn't compared to pace at European academies.

What was directly addressed was you saying DCUA focuses on pace at 14 but European academies do not.

So you either don't know what pace is in soccer or you don't know what's happening at European academies at 14 years old[/quote]

Nice try.  Unfortunately for you DCUA, we have been overseas to Portugal and Italy and my child has trained with Cat I and Cat II equivalent academies if we use the EEEP as a metric.  There are a number of options to knowledgeable parents, even in the states.  The FIFA rules are posted in a lengthy post about how to avoid your academy right here on DCUM.  There are a number of families without dual passports in Europe provided you follow the rules.

Again, you are going to grab a lot of loot from the uneducated masses with the new RDS but the people with options and kids who can actually play are trying to avoid you at all costs.  And whether true or not, the three MLS academies we have been in contact with have used “avoid DCUA” in their pitch.

Instead of using PR hours on DCUM, use the PR team to develop a way to have year round futsal and small sided play so the DMV can actually produce players locally worthy of the amount of money invested by parents.  Families are investing $200 a hour into kids who can’t beat anybody 1v1.  Since you know so much development, you should know the neural pathways for technique and ball mastery are reaching the end of the prime development right when you decide to bring kids into the academy.  You are literally five years behind. Nine years behind in comparison to how Philly operates.

It is sad to see an organization so committed to mediocrity and defend incompetence.  Yeah, I’ll pass.[/quote]

How did you get in touch with other MLS Academies? Did you or your kids coach reach out?[/quote].

Not the OP, but ours got scouted at MLS events.  Your coach won't reach out for your player.  We had 4 interested and funny thing is we were told "avoid DCU", just like a previous poster stated.

You can also try reaching out to them through the teams site, but I'm sure they get bombarded with forms so I don't know how viable that is.[/quote]

MLS events like showcases and tournaments or just regular league play? What age group were they scouted at? Thank you!

[/quote]

Yes at showcases and tournaments.  The only scout I've seen at regular games were DCU ones.  Scouted at u14, went on trial at a few academies, went to play for one at u15.  I know others had been scouted at u14.[/quote]

Nice! That’s awesome! How did DCU scouts miss your kid?

[/quote]

When academy scouts pick 25 out of 40 regional kids because they meet the criterion of their program, it doesn't mean they missed the other 15

No academy on planet earth has roster sizes that can fit all the talent in their region [/quote]

Is DCUA known to enforce their protected list? I’ve heard stories of other MLS clubs enforcing it for players who never played (or declined to play) for their academies. Does that happen with DCUA?[/quote]

Every academy enforces their protected player list because it’s an opportunity to make money. Another academy who wants a player on DCUs protected list can buy them.[/quote]

What are the amounts of money being exchanged? Like how much are transfers worth?[/quote]

This is where most people don't have the experience or understanding of the system to answer this question.  But let me break it down for you:

First, for unsigned youth players in a MLS academy like DCU, they aren't "transferred" to another MLS academy per se. If they move within the MLS it would be considered an internal MLS transaction and what is actually happening is that the acquiring club is purchasing the players homegrown rights (meaning the territory rights to the youth player and the right to sign them to a homegrown contract which is what all the MLS clubs are trying to do because it gives them the most potential to make money on the player as they have exclusive rights over the player).  Real money isn't exchanged rather the MLS clubs use General Allocation Money (GAM) to fund these types of transactions. Think of GAM as MLS currency. Every club in the MLS receives about 1.5-2 million in GAM funds each year in their budget directly from the MLS.

Second, because this isn't a technically a transfer, different compensation is owed.  There isn't a transfer fee.  But, the club will usually request training compensation for the player if they have invested in him.  This compensation can vary widely depending on how resourced the club is and how much time the player has spent in the club.  That's said, these fees can get up there in the 20-50k per year a kid was in the club.  So as you can imagine, it is quite a negotiation if a. The player has been in the club for a while b. The club sees the player has potential and c. The player is closer to becoming a pro (as opposed to u14 when they are way far off from that).

So let's play this out...u17 player has been in DCU for three years and wants to move to Philly Union.  DCU will 100 percent request GAM for this player (could be anywhere from 60k-100k range depending on individual factors)and unless they are good enough, Philly Union may not want to pay them.  So, he is stuck.  And he will need to search for a club that wants to play the GAM DCU wants.  Sounds crazy but this is what happens.  The way around this for a player is if the family moves territories.  Then they are no longer in the homegrown market they were once in and the club can request his rights directly from the MLS because they reside in a new territory.

These negotiations are highly individualized and based on circumstances of the player and his experience with and value at the club.  I have seen instances where a player's rights were let go for nothing because the club didn't see potential in the player and they didn't want to restrict his movement.  I have also seen where a club stands by its desire to get GAM and the player can't make a move like he wants.  It's business. Also remember this is MLS to MLS only.  Moving outside the MLS is different both domestically and internationally.

It's an ugly side of the MLS academy system that is VASTLY underestimated and misunderstood by so many parents in the DMV. What you need to know is that as soon as you sign up with DCU understand that if you want to move to another MLS academy, it may not happen as you want it and DCU will have a say in what you will be able to accomplish.[/quote]

Ok, now do transfers to clubs abroad, the difference between transfering from an MLS academy and transferring from a non-MLS academy. Thanks![/quote]

You out here making demands???? Nah man, it doesn't work like that.  The PP asked a legit question and I answered it.    But it isn't hard to find the answers you want.  My last post basically gives it to you.  [/quote]

Sorry, my bad. I’m assuming that transfers to clubs abroad will necessitate training compensation for the MLS academy (calculated based on FIFA requirements). But that transfers abroad from non-MLS clubs will maybe come with solidarity payments to the non-MLS club but I didn’t think the latter was being enforced or recognized? Just wanted to see if someone can confirm my understanding of the FIFA regs and whether that’s what actually happens in practice.

I appreciate the explanation re transfers between MLS academies and what that actually means in practice. [/quote]

No worries.

International transfer:

From MLS club. Yes.  A transfer abroad will trigger training compensation request from the MLS club for sure.  Again, the amount will depend on the club, the time the player has been at the club and the potential trajectory of the player.

Non MLS club.  Probably not.  If pay to play, for the most part, nothing will be owed because the majority of pay to play clubs in the US don't comply with FIFAs rules and requirements regarding training systems and FIFA requires clubs to have programs that are not primarily fee based in order to receive training comp.  Essentially, they are saying you're not going to get paid twice for developing the player.  Long story short, most pay to play clubs aren't FIFA compliant and if a player moves internationally from one of them, no money is owed.  VERY attractive for an international transfer of a youth player.  Accordingly, no solidarity payments can be collected in this scenario either.

Solidarity payments and training compensation are different sets of fees.  Solidarity payments are paid when a player is transferred internationally while under contract and it is usually around 5 percent of the transfer fee distributed among the clubs that trained the player between the ages of u12-u23.  So basically this triggers during a professional player international transfer with a fee attached.

Training compensation is different.  Will be due in two scenarios.  When the player signs his first pro deal with a club in another country OR international transfers of players under 23 as long as the new club is in a different country.

Basically what all this means is that if you're coming from the US and not from a MLS academy, you can move internationally with no fees attached.  If you're in a MLS academy, the club will request training compensation and that could limit your movement.  Maybe not if the target club is willing to pay the training comp requested.  In terms of tangible impact on a youth player in our area...if he has genuine ambition to play overseas, I would strongly consider not joining a MLS academy when they are young. Most clubs won't pay for him because they have enough domestic talent.  Unless he is extremely strong and trials well overseas and they are willing to pay for him.  But a massive gamble.  And if you're going to try and play overseas, try to do this as young as possible.  The older they get, the more competitive it is and the less likely they are going to gamble on a player from the US.  Not impossible but less likely.

And reminder that all of this is separate from immigration and FIFA rules on transfers of minors.  If under 18 you have limited ways in which you can transfer under fifa rules.  There is a separate post on this in the DC united thread.

You might say well, how did all of the players like pulisic, mckinnie, Adams, gio Reyna, etc get over there so easily.  Simple.  The USSF didn't participate in training comp and solidarity payment schemes until recently (last 5 years) and these payments weren't due during those transfers.  To be honest, if they did at the time, those transfers may not have happened.  They happened because those clubs got those players completely free which is almost impossible to achieve in Europe for European players.  And Germany was the most progressive with this move on free American youth players.

If you want to see the difference in environment really at play just take a look at Cavan Sullivan.  Here is one of our promising youth players, tons of hype, tons of attention.  10 years ago he would already be playing at Man City u17 no question. Now, because more money is at stake on his transfer, city says, play in the MLS, we will see if you develop into something we don't have domestically and then we will think about a transfer. MUCH different environment.

[/quote]

You're saying the club in Germany signed Weston McKennie at 18 from FC Dallas only because it was a free transfer?
No other better 17 or 18 year old in Europe was available?

Same for Pulisic and the others[/quote]

That's right.  No other better 17 or 18 year old was available FOR FREE.  Schalke would.have to pay for them.  Same.for Pulisic.  Why not take these guys then?  They cost the club absolutely nothing and have tremendous upside potential.  The German players cost them something at 18 yrs and on that alone the upside is not as high.  You nare vastly underestimating the value of a completely free transfer in global football.  With no fees attached whatsoever.  It is like.gold. [/quote]

Be serious man

All the available players from Africa, South America, Europe and Asia at 17+ and they chose the US boys just because they're free transfer?
These fees are negotiated and paid every day by these clubs. Cost of doing business.

Free is nice but not a showstopper for the right fit talent [/quote]

[b]I am a parent learning this system and some of you are blocking a quality conversation[/b] because you are not in the mix.  When we trained in Germany, there were alot of Africans in the academy systems.  Youtube Laliga FC futures and watch Espanol vs. Real Madrid a few months ago.  Do you really think there are that many germans and spaniards of African descent magically living Wolfsburg and Barcelona?  These clubs will look for the cheapest routes to acquire talent and the US is no longer one as US Soccer and the MLS matures and develops.  Those opportunities are now going to the African's if that African is free and your MLS academy player has a fee (assuming the two players are equivalent).  If you think these clubs have not mastered the art of working through the FIFA rules then you don't believe Steve Balmer paid Leonard $28m through a shell company to circumvent the NBA salary cap which is soooooo obvious and I have flying car to sell you.

Why do you think these new FIFA rules came about?  This is a hard core business not too different than child trafficking if you don't have guardrails up.  Clubs have been pumping and dumping kids for years, especially those coming from 3rd world countries.  That is the beauty of our US system at times because at least you get a college degree for your talent.  The soccer world is different and we need to drop our egos and learn the system so we can help our kids.

These clubs don't like paying $169m (Isak transfer fee in $) for a player when you can have a development pipeline for 1/10 of the cost.

5% of $169m = $8,450,000 to the clubs who invested in Isak as a youth (idk for sure, just generally speaking).  That is a lot of money for an MLS franchise and the MLS franchises now understand that.  MLS academies are not free.  You are an asset to them with a value.  They control you.  This conversation is about allowing us parents to control the future of our kids.  I can choose to give up control to DCU or any other academy if I deem the value of the training is higher than I can pay for separately or I can choose to pay to train my kid and stay clear of giving up that control until I get to the right academy.  Make no mistake.  We will give up control at some point.  The terms "buy" and "sell" a player are used for a reason.  Stop nitpicking details, appreciate the conversation and learn the system.[/quote]

There are kids of African decent who hold European passports in the academy system pre 18 years old.
That's not the conversation

Kids after 16 go to Cat 1 academies in England from other European countries and the originating academy is compensated based on how long they developed the kid.
They also compensate kids coming from Cat 2 and Cat 3 academies or Grass Roots to Chelsea for example. Regularly and consistently.

If a player is the right prospect and free, they'll also take him.

I love your ego in assuming you are the one and only knowledgeable one, on an anonymous forum. [/quote]

Nope.  Some people are too shadowed by an ego to read (typical).  For the little people in the back:  I AM LEARNING and appreciate the information being shared.

I don't think you added anything new so not sure why that is such a flex :lol:  :lol:

The poster has valid points and they jive with what we are seeing in the real world.  I don't need to have the contract language for Cavan Sullivan to learn this marketplace and help make the best decision for my kid.  I will exit as you appear to have the ego the size of our of president and will waste time trying to attack me versus having a productive conversation.  Stay :evil: my friend.[/quote]

What did the PP say that's incorrect?

Can there be African kids at academies in Germany under 18 years old who don't have a valid European passport?

If yes, how?[/quote]

Technically and under the rules, no.  Reality, yes.  You don't understand how serious the market is for talent in Europe.  It is BIG business and billions of dollars are at stake year to year.

Right now, [b]you're seeing a lot of birth certificate fraud from players coming from third world countries.  And manipulation of their residency status.  A player enters the market with a passport that shows he's 16 but the reality is that he is 19 or 20.  Put a top 20 year old in a u17 game and the result is instant standout.  Value rises quickly for this player and he is sold.  That simple.  This is happening all over the world and some play by the rules and ALOT don't.  It's big business.  [/b]

Americans fundamentally don't understand this because soccer is not big business in the US.  Youth soccer is still about the oranges after the game in most suburbs in America.  Not so in Europe.  [/quote]

How does a non-EU player lying about their age and playing younger get into a European academy without a EU passport?

Also, you do know they do X-rays and  MRI bone scan testing in Europe to verify age?
Along with offset (MO) and percentage of adult height (PAH) tests.

In the olds days, lying and playing down worked before Article 19 for non Europeans.
This is 2025[/quote]

Bone scans give approximate age as an estimate.  Certainly not used to verify age. Why some.kods bone scans at 16 show they are developed like a 21 year old.   You don't know what you're talking about.  Plain and simple.  Just stick with the US system.  Don't talk about things you don't know about or have experience with.[/quote]

But the 21 year old doesn't have wrist and hand bone scan results that look 16

100% used as one of multiple methods to verify questionable age. 
You want the FIFA or UEFA or Chatgbt verification of this fact?[/quote]

It sucks having to keep educating you.  Google and chatgpt can't beat REAL experience which you clearly don't have.

The bone scan method is ONE method to verify age and it is primary used in FIFA sanctioned  u17 international tournaments as it is not a strong  predictor of age after that age because the wrist bone has fused in most cases after that age. Most youth leagues in Europe are not wrist scanning on cost alone. Birth documents are the primary method. With a fake birth certificate anything is possible.  And after u17, the wrist scan test is no longer valuable.  U17-u23 are the prime years for a player and when the most movement is happening for an academy or pro footballer.

I don't even need to Google or chatgpt what I'm saying because I have lived it.  But if you want, post the Google and chatgpt that says something different than what I'm saying.  Would LOVE to see that.  Bottom line most youth leagues in Europe do NOT use wrist scanning to verify age.  Period. And it's use is mostly when you start representing your country at the international level and mainly only the u17 age.  So rather limited use on a global scale.

Like was said before, player comes into a youth league in Europe with fake documents, does well, and is sold.  That simple.  
[/quote]

You're disagreeing with them while you're both saying bone scan is one method of verification?

Thats why arguments on the internet is 99% nonsense [/quote]

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