Reply to skipping intro classes on HS

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly.  With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.  [/quote]
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes. [/quote]

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.[/quote]

[b]What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes?[/b] There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.

There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.

Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/

UC Scout for AP classes.
https://www.ucscout.org/
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New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.

Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.[/quote]

[b]Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. Y[/b]ou can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.

If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html

Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.[/quote]

You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.[/quote]

No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.

If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.[/quote]

I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school. [/quote]

Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.

https://openstax.org/details/books/university-physics-volume-1/

I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.[/quote]

PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C

AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.

I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year. [/quote]

If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.

The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.

Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.

https://openstax.org/details/books/college-physics-2e/

Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.

Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.[/quote]

An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. [b]Physics is a science, not a Math class.[/b] Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.

[/quote]

Yes, exactly. Kids need to master algebra-based physics before moving to calculus-based one. However, algebra based physics should be started in middle school. Here are the kinds of problems DC did in seventh grade:

1. A lift of mass M is acted upon by force F, causing the lift to move upward. A weight of mass m is suspended from the lift's ceiling using an inextensible thread. Determine the lift's acceleration. If the thread breaks, what will be the accelerations of the weight and the lift relative to the ground immediately after the thread breaks? The mass of the thread is negligible.

2. A glass cup in the shape of a cuboid has a square base with sides a = 4 cm and height h = 6 cm. The thickness of the vertical wall is d1 = 0.4 cm, and the bottom thickness is d2 = 0.8 cm. What pressure does the cup exert on the surface when standing normally, and what pressure when it's turned upside down? (Glass density is ρ = 2400 kg/m³)

3. The cheetah is the fastest land animal. The maximum speed a cheetah can reach is vmax = 112 km/h, which it can maintain for a maximum time of tmax = 20 s. Our cheetah covers a distance of length x. For the first t1 = 180 s, it runs at one-seventh of its maximum speed, then runs one kilometer at one-quarter of its maximum speed, and runs the remaining distance at maximum speed. Since it got a bit tired before reaching maximum speed, the time during which it runs at maximum speed equals half of the longest possible duration of the cheetah's running at maximum speed. Find the cheetah's average speed over the entire path. How much time would it take the cheetah to cover distance x if it runs at one-eighth of its maximum speed the entire time? Consider the speeds on each individual section to be constant.
[/quote]

This is way easier than AP Physics 1. Have you looked at the free response questions for AP Physics 1 - they are very abstract and confusing. There is a reason AP Physics 1 has the lowest AP pass rate. Some 9th graders can handle it just fine but most cannot [/quote]

AP Physics 1 exam being poorly worded and quizzing people based on memorized catchphrases is a different matter.

AP Physics exam is hard for the same reason CS Principles is hard: because it avoids the actual science and math, it uses College Board English-based replacements that are confusing to people who understand the ideas that College Board has removed. [/quote]

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