Reply to Can a friend group be toxic for some people but not for others?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

My understanding is that Kelly became very depressed after these rumors spread, and especially when she started being excluded or treated coldly/rudely by others in the group. She chose to quit the hobby (which was a big deal -- it's an expensive hobby she'd spent years getting good at, but it's a small community and it's pretty much impossible to do without running into people from this friend group) and she ultimately severed her friendships with everyone in the group. While she didn't tell me this directly, one of the people close to her told me that she was in therapy, on anti-depressants, and experiencing suicidal ideation, which was why she chose to make a clean break. It was also when Covid started, so it was an easy excuse to just cut everyone out.

But the people who participated in the gossip/shunning her view it differently -- they think she was being dramatic, that she expected the group to chase after her and apologize, and they think it's kind of funny no one did. The people who think this have mellowed a bit on it, and aren't as nasty when her name comes up. But it's still an attitude "oh yeah, Kelly was weird, she didn't really fit in with us."

I'm struggling because I see both sides of this.[/quote]

You’re struggling because you want these people’s approval more than you want to pay the price associated with living your values. It’s unfortunate.[/quote]

+1. you're "struggling" because deep down you feel some guilt and shame -- both for how kelly was treated and for the cowardice that keeps you around these people. [/quote]

This is a bit harsh. We are all in toxic groups at some point, either work, family, PTA, etc. We have reasons for not immediately leaving them- if we ever do- even when we notice they are toxic. If I had a hobby I really enjoyed, I probably wouldn't leave the Kelly hater group. But they would be a peripheral group, not one that I would invest in emotionally.  [/quote]
+1 OP seems like a thoughtful person who is trying way harder than most to come to terms with a situation she’s not comfortable with. [b]Most of you critics wouldn’t have been the instruments of justice for Kelly you imagine either.
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OP, I think you are slowly priming yourself to leave this group and find/found another, and I applaud you and also your sister for nudging you along. And I love that you discussed this with your sister and she had the take she did. [/quote]

I'm not sure many people have argued OP should try to get "justice" for Kelly. More that if OP silently accepts what is pretty obviously bullying (spreading false rumors and freezing someone out of the group), she is complicit. OP can tell herself she's not involved, but if she heard these rumors and saw Kelly being ignored or getting the cold shoulder from others, but neither reached out to Kelly nor said anything on her behalf (even "everyone knows that rumour isn't true") then she participated in ostracizing Kelly. And OP knows this, which is why she's uncomfortable.

Bullies need people like OP to get away with their campaigns against others-- people who will quietly accept the bullying as long as it's not directed at them. The bully is counting on people like OP to think "I don't want to be involved" or "that doesn't sound right but not my place to say" or "huh I feel bad for her but there's not really anything I can do." Useful idiots.[/quote]

+1. This happened last year in my neighborhood with a former friend group. There was an issue, and one husband and wife began bullying another couple that they were formerly friends with. Untrue rumors at the bus stop, social media posts, gossip, things of that nature. The bullies are a jealous and controlling type. I was on the outside, but saw many people silently go along and not stand up for the people being bullied because they didn't want to be the next target. A year later, the neighborhood friend group is nowhere what it used to be. Bullies get away with things like what happened to "Kelly" because they know people don't want to be involved and will remain silent and complicit. Nobody wants to be the next victim of the bully and the next one ostracized, so they will turn the other eye and say "I don't want to be involved", but they are involved by allowing the cruel bullying behavior to continue.[/quote]

9:18 here and this is what I was trying to say. You think you're avoiding drama by not saying anything when people like this behave this way, but you are actually encouraging the drama because every time someone dies this stuff with no one saying "hey, I don't support that," it just makes them more confident that they can do it again.

This is how bullies amass power. They start small but if everyone turns their heads and acts like it's fine, they realize they have the power to hurt people in this way. OP gave Kelly's bullies power by saying and doing nothing while this woman was lied about and ostracized, and had what sounds like a mental health crisis. It's important for OP to understand the role her silence played *and continues to play* in empowering the people who spread those rumors and got Kelly ousted from the group.

Even if OP never sees Kelly again, speaking up about this behavior would let others in the group know that OP, at least, doesn't condone it. But in order to do that, OP has to actually be willing to hold those people accountable for their behavior, and it doesn't sound like she will be able to do that.[/quote]

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