Reply to Sold a Story and Phonics instruction

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Some kids need a good does of phonics as initial scaffolding and then need less as time goes on. Some kids a good deal more. Other don’t need it at all. But it hurts no one and helps most (even if not with reading, certainly with spelling. And it doesn’t be require that much time to implement along side broader reading comprehension works. So seems like a win-win. [/quote]

This is it! It is important to teach all children the reading building blocks.[/quote]

True but the problem is that kids who are already reading don’t need as nauseam basic phonics instruction.  Time is better spent on analysis, comprehension, writing, etc…..

It’s the lower performing bottom who needs repetitive phonics instruction and why DCPS is extending it into 2nd grades.

Don’t get me wrong, I support phonics instruction and it’s needed for kids reading chapter books.  It really doesn’t help with spelling.  What helps is actually having weekly spelling lists or learning actual spelling diagrams.  The basic phonics being taught in DCPS is not it.[/quote]

What you are getting wrong is that it makes no sense to label kids who are still learning/ have been poorly taught phonics “the lower performing bottom”. [/quote]

What you are getting wrong is that instead of force feeding phonics to the majority of kids who are already reading by 1st and definitely by 2nd, DCPS should do either pull out or push in for the kids who can’t read, have dyslexia, etc…

But of course above is not happening.  [/quote]

The 2nd grade Fundations lessons are 15 minutes at the beginning of the day. My kid has a Lexile score around 1000 and doesn’t complain about them. [/quote]

PP here. Ok but your kid and all the other kids in 2nd grade who can read would be much better served by actually spending those 15 minutes on doing a spelling lists, learning actual grammar and sentence structure, or doing compositional writing.

I would also argue that 15 minutes of phonics is also not enough time to target the kids who are not reading by 2nd grade.  They actually need much more time than that and really should be in pulled out groups.

Lastly, I also suspect that kids in poorly performing schools, where majority are not reading, are not getting just 15 minutes of phonics.  The overwhelming majority of the time in ELA is likely spent on phonics. [/quote]

Fundations lessons are scripted. It could take a bit more time to get through them at a school where almost no students could follow the exercizes, but we're really talking 30 minutes max. They could do other phonics work, of course, but that's not actually the Fundations curriculum itself. Also, if the majority of kids cannot read, more phonics instruction is a good thing in my book. Yes, absolutely, at that point good readers should be pulled for different small group work... but that's exactly what's happening at most good schools.

I also think you're vastly overestimating the percentage of UMC who get no benefit from Fundations/phonics at the beginning of 2nd grade. Even kids who read well can lack certain fundamentals that can be useful for decoding unfamiliar technical words (e.g., science vocab) later on. Phonics also absolutely assist with spelling and our school introduces spelling & vocab lists in 3rd grade that are still largely based on phonics principles. That's also when they start a separate writing class, which focuses on all the things you want. It sounds like you want that to start in 2nd rather than 3rd grade, but even at our non-T1 EOTP DCPS, the majority of 3rd graders struggle at the beginning of the year. (Also my 2nd grader actually did a fair amount of writing last year in small group, but didn't have formal writing instruction like she has now.)

Really the idea that in the course of a DCPS ES day 15 minutes of phonics is a waste of time is just baffling to me. I think you haven't spent enough time in the classroom to see how many 15 minute chunks are just entirely wasted if this is the fight you're picking.[/quote]

You need to get out of your generalization and bubble.  Most schools EOTP are not pulling out readers for small group with more advance work while teaching the rest of the majority of kids phonics.  Most schools are not giving out spelling and vocabulary lists.[/quote]

But then your complaint is that your school is bad, not that it spends 15 minutes a day on phonics. If your school doesn't do anything else right, then it seems like a scripted 15-30 minute/day phonics lesson is particularly needed.[/quote]

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