Reply to What are the various summer leagues policies on swimmers and gender identification

Forum Index » Swimming and Diving

Reply to "What are the various summer leagues policies on swimmers and gender identification"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You don’t sound very familiar with A meet at a dual meet format. Do you have a HS or college swimmer (I do and I was one- which means I’m also very familiar with club meets). [b]So A meats run one heat of boys and one heat of girls.[/b]  If you mix genders you have two heats 3 scoring entries  per team per event. A trans girl swimmer would have to fill a male slot in the entries and then you could race them based on time, the fastest heat would usually be all the boys and the first heat girls (but you’d have a few exceptions especially at teams without a lot of year round swimmers)[/quote]

This isn’t rocket science. Enter the kids and their seed times. Run the mixed gender/age heats. Calculate the scores at the end depending on time. The times supercede the order of heat finishes. Accept thanks from parents for a shortened meet. [/quote]

I don’t think you know how nvsl ‘a’ meets work.  USA seimming meeting are not run like ‘a’ meets.  In an a meet each team gets to enter 3 boys and 3 girls in each age group event.  They are assigned lanes by team, not by time.   So there is not a way to accommodate’ a biological boy who wants to swim in the girls event.   It’s definitely not shortening the meet.  The meet is just 1 heat of everything.    B meets vary much more.  [/quote]

Again, it’s not rocket science. The big change is that nvsl has to change the rules and assign heats and lanes by times and not by teams/age/gender. Each kid comes into the meet with a seed time or NT. The 25’s stay 8U or 10U for fly and the rest are 14u 50’s. You put all the entries in psych sheet order and make heats from that order. There will be 10u girls who have faster seed times than some 12u and even 14u boys. The reason why this make the meet run faster is that you won’t have multiple heats of 50 free/fly/breast/back where there is one kid in each heat who is 10 sec slower than everyone else. Take a look at an A meet on meet mobile and imagine that all the 50 fly races are grouped by time alone. All the kids who take more than a minute are grouped together. Half empty heats can be consolidated.

I took a quick look at a random A meet last season - they ran 6 heats of 50 fly for the three age groups of boys and girls in a 6 lane pool. There were only 24 swimmers in those heats. There were 6 swimmers in 3 heats with times of 50 sec+. If you had mixed heats, you would have had 4 heats and put the 6 slowest swimmers in one heat. Conservatively, this would have shaved 3-4 minutes of swim time, plus another few minutes to get swimmers ready, timers ready etc between heats, so 6-8 min total. Repeat for other 50’s and now your event length is 20-25 min shorter. Combine relays to fill the lanes and now your meet can drop another 10-15 min.

Regardless of fairness, nvsl might consider this rule change to allow faster meets when there is approaching weather. In a pool that can run 8 lanes, the meet can really zip by if mixed heats were allowed. [/quote]

This sound awful, it would ruin the fun competitiveness of a dual meet (I’m still not convinced you’ve ever been to one). [/quote]

yeah- I don't think the poster has ever been to an NVSL 'a' meet either.  For one thing- they are misinterpreting the results to mean there were only '24' swimmers in '6 heats.'  There is a lot wrong with this statement.  The most glaring one is that the NVSL website is only showing swimmers who finished legally ('their places') and so a swimmer who DQ'd is not shown.  I'm guessing the 'random' meet the poster picked had 12 dq's in the 50 fly.  That's a lot FWIW, but not unheard of.  Its really uncommon to have an empty lane in an 'a' meet.  It probably happens more as you go down the divisions- but certainly in the top 10 divisions its highly unlikely.  Now- its possibly that someone was supposed to swim, got sick, they weren't able to make a sub that morning etc- but again fairly uncommon.
It's also wrong to think of that example as '6 heats.'  No there was 1 heat.  There were 6 different events.  For each of these events, the kids stepped to the line, had their name announced (in lane 1, 3, and 5 swimming for blah blah pool, we have Larla swimmer, lana swimmer, etc.) raced, people cheered.   'A' meets go pretty fast, they don't need to 'go faster.'   Part of the fun of the meet is the formalities of it.  The better equivalent is a 'finals' event of a PVS meet rather than a regular meet.   Also- I strongly suspect that 'going by seed times' would basically mean you ran the events girl, boy age up.  Its pretty uncommon that a 10 year old female a meet swimmer is going to beat a 12 year old female a meet swimmer, etc.

Could you run summer NVSL swim like year round swimming, focus just on seed times, and run everything mixed gender, and sort at points at the end?  Yes, you 'could' but you would be doing a very different thing.  There is zero benefit to this type of change.  I can understand conceptually 'how to do it,' its just a really bad idea.  And it gains nothing.  Biological boys don't need to swim with the girls.   We don't need to fundamentally change our approach to sports to accommodate this.  [/quote]

I took this directly from an actual nvsl meet - dq’s were in counted. There were empty lanes because kids didn’t show up or were late to the start[/quote]

what is your source adn what division are you looking at?  empty lanes in a 'a' meet are extraodinarily uncommon.  The only source of NVSL results that I am aware of is the NVSL website- and that doesn't report DQ's- do dq's look like empty lanes.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics