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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]NP, and I haven't read through this thread, but I have to say that I'm happy to hear this. The church should not be bending to the ways of popular culture. It follows God's teachings, which are clear on this issue.

Not returning for a debate on this as I know that 99% of you don't agree with me, which is fine. But there are some of us who are pleased that the Pope did not cave to political pressure.[/quote]

Where is it clear?[/quote]

Paul writes about it in Romans. The Old Testament also condemns homosexual practice, and in several places defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman.[/quote]

Scholars disagree on how to read 1:26.  Some say it is a prohibition against sodomy, regardless of genders involved.  So, not clear.[/quote]

A bit of a tangent here, but I’m curious. Is 1:26 the reference some people use to justify homosexual relations between women and not condone it between men? I’ve heard some people go as far as saying that women cannot be homosexual because they cannot sodomize one another. I think other catechetical elements frown upon sexual acts between any two people outside of marriage, so it’s a moot point as far as the church is concerned.[/quote]

I'm not familiar with that.

But I find it distressing that a church of a billion people stands for discrimination against gays, when they know they have nearly all broken Church law regarding sex and reproduction.  Sex is ordained for reproduction, and "each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life."   Nearly every Catholic woman of reproductive age reports having used artificial birth control.  I'm sure some think this is justified because they were (nearly) sure they were going to get married, or because in their hearts they know God does not want them to have a fifth child. Or IVF? The Church condemns it and yet Catholic moms will talk about their IVF experiences openly at Church functions! Because how could the church "truly" object to bearing children?  God couldn't possibly mean for them to be childless.
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Technically, there is nothing wrong with being gay and catholic. But there is a call to live chastely and celibate. Which I know, that is seen as discrimination since straight single people CAN get married in the church. You’re right about the sins again sexuality in general. Yes those people choose those things but technically are still now following the church.

As a catholic, I don’t see how this is surprising to anyone and why anyone who isn’t catholic cares. If you’re gay, there are plenty of Christian ministers who will officiate your wedding. Plenty of churches that will see your marriage as valid in addition to it being legal in this country. Why would you want to be married in a church that doesn’t see gay marriage as valid?[/quote]

It's not surprising.  But if you grow up in a Catholic family and you are gay, you care a lot!

If your Catholic family rejects you because your marriage is an offense against God or they think you are going to hell, you care a lot!

If your family has been Catholic for a millennium and you grew up praying the Rosary and you realize your church is doing an injustice to people, you care!

If you believe in transubstantiation, and there is nowhere else to receive the Eucharist as you know it, you are denied something irreplaceable!

[/quote]

Yes in those situations, that makes sense. But many people just like to criticize the church for it's beliefs for not other reason to criticize. The mormon church doesn't allow gay marriage and I'm sure strict Muslim and Jewish groups don't either. But, only the catholic church gets criticized for it.

Although rare, I'm sure there are gay Catholics who are choosing to live a celibate life and continue to practice their Catholic faith and fully participate in the church in full communion. They accept they won't get married in the church. If someone truly believes in the One Holy Catholic church and is gay, they are likely accept the teachings and not want to be living in sin. Otherwise, there are other churches where they can live a faith in God and feel accepted.[/quote]

Stop questioning the motives of the posters here.  24% of America was Catholic.  I was Catholic.  I was raised in a 90% Catholic neighborhood.  I studied with the Precious Blood sisters, the Jesuits and the Opus Dei.  I was in church 6 days a week.  The most meaningful experiences of my childhood were with the Church.  Priests were my heroes.

But over the years, the priests are all gone - married or gay.  One showed up in the abuse reports.  I watched my gay friend struggle with his faith and his family.  I bring these things up with an earnest interest in debating the content of papal encyclicals and statements from CDF and to discuss the history of women in the church, of celibacy in the clergy, birth control, homosexuality.  All I hear is trite responses like "The Church is not a Democracy" or "join the Episcopalians".  I tried the Episcopalians.  I had to, because I couldn't defend the Church to my wife when the Church isn't even beginning to open its heart.   But [b]it doesn't feel right.  Services don't feel real.  
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This is how a 1,000 year long unbroken line of Catholics comes to an end.

[/quote]

Maybe because Episcopal churches don't have that little red light that means Jesus is there?

Seriously. there's no going back, and the Episcopal church is as close as you can get without current former Catholics and dissenting priests starting their own parishes.

Now there's an idea![/quote]

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