Reply to Italy ending Child Support and redefining divorce laws

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think this is a great idea. And I'm female. I believe children would benefit if fathers shared more child rearing. You're not a father if you have the kids one weekend a month. [/quote]

Ideally, yes.

In reality? Not every man is a good father. There needs to be flexibility. My sister is divorced. Her husband, while a nice man, is not capable of being a 50% parent. He just is not. His idea of spending time with his son is going to a park and spending the entire time on his phone while the kid runs around or sits around, bored. And he's clueless on so many things about childrearing and what's appropriate or not appropriate for children. And will always be. That's just who he is. It would hurt the child if he was forced to spend 50% of his time with his father and would probably make their relationship more difficult.

And I say the same for some mothers too. There has to be a system that allows courts to award majority custody to one parent over the other because that's the best for the child. [/quote]

Moms can be lousy parents and still award custody.  Its all very subjective and its easy for a judge or evaluator to be bias and for a parent to encourage the kids to be negative the other parent to gain custody.  Most men are good fathers if given the chance.  It should be an automatic 50/50 in less there is evidence of abuse or neglect toward the kids.  Often, the house is set up in a way that works for the couple and Dad is blamed for not doing more when it may be for other reasons.  If a Dad is given a chance, he may step up.  If a parent doesn't have a 50% or just every other weekend its very hard to maintain a relationship and that parent status so of course they become the fun parent as you cannot parent much for 4 days a month, especially when the other parent is looking for anything to criticize about.

My husband's ex was a lousy parent.  Kids are all pretty screwed up.  My husband went to court many times over visitation and it was a joke as the judge would just tell mom to allow visitation, she'd say ok, then refuse it and repeat.  Eventually he gave up as it was too costly to have an attorney full-time and fly back and forth each time visits were refused and the unused plane tickets.  Both parents need to be held accountable, not just Dad's for child support.[/quote]

I agree that women can also be bad parents, but that's not what this is about- the 50% rule is not a progressive law recognizing men as parents. It's about child support and alimony laws that heavily favor the higher earning spouse, in most cases the husband. [/quote]

My husband didn't have a high income and paid an insane amount of child support, alimony and extras and she gets a portion of the retirement.  She refused to allow him to pay for anything directly and only wanted cash (which he refused as there was no documentation and she'd lie even when there was proof that she didn't receive the child support) so I don't think its such a bad thing to split kids expenses or have Dad pay directly.  Kids should know Dad is paying.  Lots of mom's I know pretend that the child support is their money and if Dad will not pay every other expense they claim they are deadbeats.  Child support should also be tied to visitation if the mother refuses visitation for no good reason.  Lots of changes need to be made.  [/quote]

While I know that not all women are great parents and some out earn their ex-DH and some abuse the system-- the law in Italy is not progressive because the gender gap is not progressive. Attempts to curtail the exes receive will overwhelmingly favor men *and* with high unemployment and the wage gap, working ex wives will earn less, even if they have exactly the same job as their DH. Did you read the short biography of the law's mastermind? This is not about parenting or custody, it's about maintaining the status quo. 
If Italy cared about parenting- they would set up a society[b] that favors women parenting and working[/b] before they pulled the rug on alimony and child support. [/quote]

And exactly what would that entail?

Sally Sue comes into the office at 9 and leaves by 2 to be home before school end?

Sally Sue can take off 1.5 years and come back with the same salary 'because that's what the child needs'?

Sally can telework with a crying baby year-round? Focus - what's that?

I mean really...what do you want?

[/quote]

DP, but American society is set up to enable working moms by having abundant child care options, grocery stores with hours that extend beyond the work day, cafeterias in schools, large refrigerators that allow for meal planning and storage, and large washers and driers for clothes that mean you don't have to run them continuously all day every day to xo the family's laundry. Just a few items, but there are many more. Italy and in fact most European countries have low labor market participation by women because they don't have these things. So before sounding like a complete a hole and assuming italian women want 1.5 years of paid leave and other ludicrous demands, try to learn the root causes of the low employment of women in Europe. Ironically, the large "employment protection" packages that European workers receive is one of the reasons they have substantially fewer career women than America, where the labor market is more agile, and child care centers are abundant. [/quote]

None of those things are impossible for Europeans to implement or demand. Some I don't even think are an obstacle because they have them already.

[b]Abundant child care options? [/b]WTF childcare centers exist everywhere and 60% of American 'caregivers' are operating illegally - immigrants who come and care for the kid, at-home daycare centers at someone's house who isn't licensed, or grampa and grandma.

[b]Grocery story hours that extend beyond 5PM? [/b]Who's fault is that? Tell the workers to stop taking siestas during lunch hour and maybe get the companies to realize - wow there's money and actually being open.

[b]Large refrigerators?[/b] Really? So refrigerator size in NYC and major US cities actually do get smaller, just as they do in European cities. If you live in the middle of the countryside and don't have a giant refrigerator I don't know what to tell you. (And I've lived in 3 EU countries - my fridge brand was Samsung because the owners in imported quality goods).
[b]
Laundry? [/b]I mean this sounds like a priorities problem. You own the rooms in your house, no? Install a damned heavy load W/D.

I agree that Europe's current maternity leave policies have instituted a class of women who take leave for a year, come back for 3 months, get pregnant again, and once again leave. Around baby #3 they just don't come back. It's the case across Europe, though Germany and Italy have highlighted this issue.

The average for Europe is 43% of women in the workforce. The average for the U.S. 60% of women in the workforce.

https://www.catalyst.org/research/women-in-the-workforce-europe/#footnote18_3qzxb4h

https://www.dol.gov/wb/factsheets/qf-laborforce-10.htm[/quote]

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