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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them.  Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.[/quote]

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse. [/quote]

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: [b]hookup culture is bad[/b]! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.[/quote]

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. [b]How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent,[/b] when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent? [/quote]

Perhaps we need to teach our sons to do a better job of recognizing and understanding what could happen.  If a girl is THAT drunk, or if she says yes but then no and then yes again, or if she is on the verge of passing out, or she can't walk, or is slurring her speech so badly that you can't understand her - WALK AWAY.  Exercise restraint, recognize that this is not how you want to be getting laid, understand the consequences. Just as we would tell our daughters not to get so drunk that they black out, or not to walk home alone, and exercise personal safety, we should also be teaching our sons not to take advantage of drunk girls or get so drunk that they don't recognize that the girl they are about to have sex with is also too drunk to know what's going on.  You don't solve the "hookup culture" on college campuses by simply telling girls not to do certain things while excusing the behavior of the guys. [/quote]

what if they guy is in the same condition as the girl?

I think we tell girls and boys... no drinking before you are 21, after 21 no drinking to the point you are drunk, no sleeping with people you are not dating.

Why do I get push back from that notion? [/quote]y

Because the fact that he was drunk too has to be ignored for these women to be right. All their protests fall apart. If she was too drunk to know better, consent, etc, it stands to reason he could have been as well - in fact, his BAC level confirmed it. Only women are affected by alcohol, apparently.

Women want their alcohol, their hook ups AND the legal right to state rape, even when it's simply regret or they don't remember [/quote]

She was passed out. Unconscious. Not awake.

If he was impaired,  he still knew that what he was doing. He ran away when he got caught.

It's not the same thing at all.[/quote]

You know he ran. So would many drunk people if they were threatened. You are assuming he knew she had passed out, and that he was deliberately attacking her because of that. Prove it using fact. You can't. You are assuming [/quote]

It was already proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. What proves it to me is that PASSERSBY could tell she was passed out. How could someone on top of her not know?[/quote]

What if they were so impaired by alcohol or drugs that they didn't notice or didn't care. [/quote]

PP, would you feel the same way about drunk muggers?  Do you feel the same way about drunk drivers?[/quote]

Until they make it illegal to have sex when your blood alcohol level is above a certain level, which by the way should apply to both men and women, there is always going to be gray areas where there may be miscommunication or misunderstanding. What is a drunk mugger? [/quote]

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