Reply to Insurrection Hearings 6/28 and beyond

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The secret service has a long history of lying.[/quote]
 
Ornato and Engel can’t admit they told anyone what Trump did in the car because it’s a serious breach of security protocol to gossip about stupid shit that their protectees do and say. Discretion is more sacred than truth. [/quote]

No, it’s not. Not when you’re watching an attempted coup play out.  It sounds like even the secret service guys were in a pickle that day.  Just like everyone else that worked in proximity to Trump.  DOD officials, etc.    The truth will set them all free.[/quote]
Interesting that Pence was allowed to refuse to do what USSS wanted and Trump was not.[/quote]

You raise an interesting point. Secret Service agents are human and want to manhandle their protectee as little as possible, obviously. They can pressure someone to get in a car, but they might balk a little at physically forcing someone to get in - which they have every right to do if they feel their protectee is in mortal danger. There's just a moment of doubt, and Pence, who is no fool, used that to his advantage by INSISTING that he knew he was on to them and he would not get in that car. If protesters had burst in their little area at that moment, there is no doubt the Secret Service would have pushed him in the car.

Pence knows that when you're in the backseat, it's too late. He said as much to his Secret Service.
Trump got in, and his Secret Service, who had ALREADY studied the risks and ALREADY told him he was not going to the Capitol, had to tussle with a man who can't understand the word no.

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This is a really big deal. This is not about Trump. This means the Secret Service can remove or prevent a president from meeting with people or actively engaging during a crisis. If the president wants to go to the Capitol during a political crisis or an important vote the SS have to get him there. They should not have a say in the matter. Otherwise the SS is be able to manipulate the president by cut off access, restrict the president’s movements, isolate by holding the president in a secure location, etc. while other actors take advantage of the absence of the president. [/quote]

PP you replied to. I'm not sure you fully understand the nature of the Secret Service rules and how context can influence them.

The absolute priority is a protectee's life. If there is clear and present danger, they have the authority to manhandle anyone, and use lethal force against anyone in their way, to save their protectee's life. EVEN if the protectee disagrees. It's happened already, usually to get the President into the WH bunker. Presidents never want to get into the bunker, and the SS usually has to insist (no lives have been lost, of course). There are infrequent but regularly occurring security breaches at the WH, and the SS always faces pushback when implementing security protocols, because people there just want to get on with their work.

However, as I explained before, these two occasions with Pence and Trump were unprecedented. Pence was not in immediate danger and he refused to get in the car. His detail chose not to push him in, because Pence had that sort of relationship with his agents. Trump was not in danger, but he exhibited erratic behavior at a moment when the plan to return to the WH had already been agreed upon multiple times. I think the agents around Trump were well aware that this was a volatile and untrustworthy person (from a security POV, not a political POV), and that his moods and change of plans always had to be double-checked with others. They knew all the potential consequences of going to the Capitol that day, it had already been discussed and blocked by ALL HIS STAFF, so they knew they had to refuse such a demand from Trump, made at the last minute. This shows that the SS does not act in a vacuum: they are aware of the context, and they are acutely aware of their protectee's state of mind. If Trump had been someone who inspired more loyalty and confidence, instead of ruling by bullying, his agents *might* have been persuaded to deviate from the plan. Which is why a truly dangerous leader is usually someone who has perfect control over their outward persona.

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