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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The facts are the same.  The meaning of the facts is completely different.[/quote]
Yeah, I figured that was where you were coming from.

It's like this:
1) there's a God;
2) God is good (meaning to be determined later);
3) therefore everything that occurs is just and good;
4) our belief that it's not is just symptomatic of our human limitations.

That reasoning just takes "just," "good," and similar redefines them to mean "that which occurs (b/c God made it or let it occur)." But then believers go on about how "good" God is, forgetting that they've made that adjective meaningless.

Note: I am not making an argument that there's no God b/c there's evil in the world; I'm just addressing your statements. I'm still holding out my reasons for not believing until you give yours.[/quote].

What you are describing actually is the problem of evil.  I've been putting it off, because it is a whole new strand in itself, but we can go there.  As the only argument that attempts to prove God is impossible, it is formidable.

But it can go either way.  We all know life isnt fair, that bad things happen to good people, that bad things just happen.  But we don't just accept a world full of injustice, suffering, disease, death as "it is what it is."  Our outrage indicates we have a sense of a standard whereby the world falls short.  "Do not go gentle into the night/Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

And what reasons of mine did you want--why I did not believe, or why I now do believe?[/quote]

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